In this episode, Ellen Byron (the USA Today bestselling, award-winning author of the Golden Motel Mysteries, the Vintage Cookbook Mysteries, and Cajun Country Mysteries), discusses the classic film ‘Charade’. The conversation covers the journey of ‘Charade’ to the screen, the themes of comedy in mystery, the evolution of humor, and the oddly progressive elements of the movie. As always, we hypothesize about re-making the movie today and are left wondering: who would YOU cast in the roles of Reggie Lampert and Peter Joshua? Does any star working today have the chemistry, the dapperness, and the style of Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn?
Find Ellen online and pre-order her new books!
- All Aboard for Murder: https://a.co/d/0cBIeeNH
- A Murderer’s Guide to Mardi Gras: https://a.co/d/0aEeIDfD
- Follow Ellen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ellenbyronmariadirico/
Chapters
- 00:00 Introduction and Book Discussion
- 02:57 The Journey of ‘Charade’ to the Screen
- 07:58 Complexity and Themes of ‘Charade’
- 18:51 The Plot and Characters of ‘Charade’
- 19:53 The Evolution of Humor and Comedy in Mystery
- 23:03 The Impact of ‘Charade’ and the Integration of A and B Plots
- 34:21 The Importance of Visual Elements in Storytelling
- 37:28 Progressive Themes in ‘Charade’
- 38:49 The Unique Setting of ‘Charade’
- 39:47 The Difficulty of Casting for a Remake
- 52:07 Chemistry and Elegance in Modern Actors
Transcript:
Emily Edwards (she/her): Greetings, gumshoes, and welcome to another episode of Silver Screen Sleuths. I am your host, Emily Edwards, and thank you so much for sticking around these dozen or so episodes. We are growing and changing as more wonderful authors give me their time and their attention in order to talk about wonderful, mostly classic, sleuth and flicks. This has been an absolute joy to do, and we have with us today an absolutely delightful author who I’m so excited. Is giving me her time. Ellen Byron, how the hell are you? Very
Ellen Byron
I’m good, I’m good. How are you?
Emily Edwards (she/her): well. Thank you so much. You so much of this has been like clandestine references from people. And so our last guest, Mindy Carlson, DM’d me and was like, Would you mind me giving your info to Ellen? And I was like, Are you insane?
Ellen Byron
Okay.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Of course I want to talk to Ellen.
Ellen Byron
That’s great. Thank you. I’m flattered.
Emily Edwards (she/her): And one of the reasons why we hopped on really, really quickly is that you do have two books out, basically back to back. Can you give us a little bit of a spiel on on
Ellen Byron
Yeah, the Golden Motel Mystery is the third that’s out on Tuesday, July twenty eighth. And that is the third book in my Golden Motel Mystery series. and that the premise is a a former sitcom writer, which is what I am, impulsively buys a mid-century rustic motel in California’s gold rush country and finds herself out of her element as both a sleuth and motelier when the body of a writer she once worked with ends up straddling the property. line she shares with the national park. and in All Aboard for Murder, there it’s a it’s Halloween and it’s a rail it’s there’s a line, a real line called Yosemite Sugar Pine Railroad, which was a logging, narrow gauge logging railroad. And my husband and I are big railroad fans and we did two trips on that one was at Halloween so it’s so there is a murder and there is a missing valuable souvenir version from the 1800s of this of the spike that was used to commemorate the joining of create of the two lines to create the tr first transcontinental railroad. So that’s a theme and it’s Halloween and you know there’s a ghost hunter and all kinds of crazy stuff. And then the week after in in a high class problem of not great timing, the fifth book in my finished cookbook mystery series comes out. And that is set in New Orleans and it’s called A Murderer’s Guide to Mardi Gras and my protagonist Ricky James, her boyfriend is going to be king of the crew of Chew, which is C-H-E-W, it’s a food-themed crew, and the crews are spelled K-R-E-W-E that do the parades. And she joins the crew and doesn’t realize how expensive it is, or potentially dangerous when one of the crew captains is murdered. so and I actually last year went to New Orleans. I mean I I went to college there and I’m there all the time, but I actually parade it with a couple of crews as research. So I
Emily Edwards (she/her): how cool.
Ellen Byron
write from experience. everything that I experienced kind of translated into the book. So it’s getting the kind of reviews like, yeah, this is like really we’re learning a lot about
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
parading and and the crews in New Orleans. And so that’s very fulfilling. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): That’s so neat. And talk about two wildly disparate cultures of
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): They’re like, up in, you know, the Redwoods for, you know, one and the other sweating like nobody’s business in New Orleans.
Ellen Byron
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I’m so excited that we chose to talk about charade for this particular
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): episode because you as your history in a screenwriting and teleplay writing capacity, you met and worked with the screenwriter of this film.
Ellen Byron
Yeah, Peter Stone. When I was out of college, I got a part-time job as a job as an assistant to the assistant to the executive director of the dramatists guild in Manhattan, originally from New York. And and at the time Peter was, you know, the president the president of the dramatist guild committee. You know, it’s like so it’s you know, it’s not I mean the people who are on the board. were all, you know, playwrights. I mean, I I was an incredible Stephen Sondheim and John Gware and Lanford Wilson were all Mary Rogers. I mean,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Some little guys. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
i th when I was there it was just like an incredible collection of of just legends and Peter was the the head of it. So, so I got he was the nicest man. He was you know, I I didn’t even really I don’t know if I ever when I worked I was there for I think plus maybe two years, but I don’t think I ever put together charade with him. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
’cause I just knew him more from the you know, ’cause he had written the book for Woman of the Year and, you know, a ton of other musicals and stuff. So I was a theater person then. I really
Emily Edwards (she/her): Right.
Ellen Byron
had no connection to T V or I mean I like movies, you know, of course, and I knew the movie. But I was always coming at it from a theater perspective. So yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): That’s so fantastic, but you know, it’s always so wonderful to hear when, someone has a connection to someone who’s just so heralded and so incredibly just important the magnitude.
Ellen Byron
Well, you know, it’s so well and of course Stephen Sonheim, who’s the ultimate legend, and it’s funny ’cause
Emily Edwards (she/her): Right.
Ellen Byron
I kept a journal from you know, from that time. Mostly it was about, you know, guys I liked and didn’t reciprocate and stuff and and the pain and terrible poetry. But I remember one day he came in he was early for a board meeting and he sat down at the piano and just began kind of tinkling with it. And I was like, my god, and he wrote a bike. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): I’m gonna die.
Ellen Byron
he took and and I it inspired this like little poem I wrote. And I looked in my journal and I Realized I call it was like Steve Sondheim because that’s what he, you know, he said, Call me Steve. That’s what he would tell people. So I love that it was like st you know, I’m writing Steve Santime. I know, I know. It was an amazing
Emily Edwards (she/her): The goosebumps
Ellen Byron
time. And then there was another time when I was working, I was like, you know, they would have like an event and I was working some event and Peter and John Gware, they were the nicest, nicest guys. And they were talking to me and I I I just one of my plays had just been chosen for the Actors Theater of Little Actors Theatre of Louisville short play contest, which was a huge deal at the time.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
And and they said, you know, and they were just joking and they said, so you’d want to be on the other side of the dip, because I was like kind of being the cater waiter. And and then they just I still remember they started singing. I forgot which one started, on the other side of the dip. That’s where I wanna be. And I’ve never forgotten it, because I literally remember that tune. Cause I
Emily Edwards (she/her): my gosh. Ugh.
Ellen Byron
have Peter Stone and John Guerre singing it to me.
Emily Edwards (she/her): That’s amazing. Like the the tears
Ellen Byron
I know. It was an amazing
Emily Edwards (she/her): that would spring to my eyes, like every time I remembered that. That would be so fantastic.
Ellen Byron
Then there was a time I walked in on Lanford Wilson in the bathroom.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Oops.
Ellen Byron
Cause we for some reason there was a reception area then, because it was at that time the Gigi was in the old Schubert penthouse apartment, where I
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
think probably Schubert brought his mistresses up to Canoodle. But
Emily Edwards (she/her): It’s very convenient.
Ellen Byron
But the reception area, there was like a little bathroom off the reception right there. It was this little area, and it’s also where we kept the phone books for some reason. And I had to get a back in the day when there were phone books, I had to get a
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and I opened the door to get a phone book, and Land Rules and it’s on the toilet, the bathroom. It’s like, I can tell the story now because you know, R.I.P.s. He has
Emily Edwards (she/her): You’re like, my career is over. Like Yeah.
Ellen Byron
passed away. So anyway, but that has nothing to do with charade. Those are just little anecdotes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Like, I mean, it’s half the fun of getting to have of having a career, like the career you’ve had. So you just get to be like, by the way. But what
Ellen Byron
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): one of the best things about knowing who he became and and how important he was is knowing that Sheree took so long to get to sc to screen.
Ellen Byron
You know, and it’s so interesting because the journey of that is a journey so many writers I like people out here I know who start who were like working in TV and film and then
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
decided they wanted to segue into writing mysteries for, you know, whatever reason, lack of work in the other areas, which is often
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
the case, duh did exactly what he did. They have taken, you know, I think of Wendell Thomas or Howard Gould, Howard Michael Gould, and they took their scre and just I there are I must be a half a dozen or more authors I know who did this, went that route, where they took their screenplay and turned it into a turned it into a mystery novel and then sold that. And
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
Howard had exactly the experience where he took his book, which was a great he took a screenplay, turned it into a book, and then sold it as a movie that got made with Charlie Hunnam. so, you know, unfortunately it was around the time Yeah, unfortunately it
Emily Edwards (she/her): Should we all be so lucky?
Ellen Byron
was around the time of COVID was just kicking in, but still,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
you know, and so that was the route for charade that he wrote it and it was called The Unsuspecting Wife, which is a terrible title.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Terrible.
Ellen Byron
just boring and like sounds very old timey like you know someone
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
wearing a frills and pin a pinafore going, what’s my what is my husband? Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Exactly. It’s very gaslight, you know.
Ellen Byron
I not even gaslight. It’s more like Henry short story or something.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
You know, and then and then I I didn’t boy back in the day I guess read I wrote for you know when I was a struggling playwright, I survived by writing for magazines and my my biggest client was Redbook.
Emily Edwards (she/her): that’s awesome.
Ellen Byron
And but I have n this was in the eighties and at the time I don’t think they were serializing anything. So he got he was lucky ’cause he hit it right right the time when they were serializing and some producer read it and was like, this would make a good movie and he’s like, I just happened to have the screenplay right here.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Could you imagine being like, I’m just gonna pick up a periodical and my name is Stanley Don in and ooh, look at this story that I’m just gonna like just God bless.
Ellen Byron
I know. Well, actually that’s supposedly the story between flight attendant that Kaylee Coco did that she bought the book in an airport and was like, this would be great. I could play this role you know, so I
Emily Edwards (she/her): That’s awesome.
Ellen Byron
I wish my books were as old in airports. but you know,
Emily Edwards (she/her): R right?
Ellen Byron
but it was interesting because I read the Wikipedia, you know, I saw the movie again and it just
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
stands up so beautifully. And you know, there are a couple of things that struck me that in terms of the background of it, that Carrie Grant was very self-conscious about the age difference between himself
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
and Audrey Hepburn and had them write to that. But I wrote but then he married a woman who was even there was, you know, much y much younger than she was. Diane Cannon was like a teen practically a teenager.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Diane Cannon at that point, who was just like just twelve,
Ellen Byron
So it’s so weird
Emily Edwards (she/her): yeah.
Ellen Byron
that he had an issue with it. and then Peter Stone when he Peter wrote about how, you know, was the production was so great because basically it was him and Stanley and the and the actors, you know, and I think what he meant because it was sh you know, it’s like, well, yeah, there was a crew, I’m sure, but you know, there weren’t executives ’cause they were shooting they were shooting in
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, exactly.
Ellen Byron
Paris. I think that was the subtext. you know. So Yes, exactly, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): The producer stayed home. And as two people who would love to have our books picked up for series, no, we love producers. What are you talking about? You’re brilliant. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
I know. And I’ve actually had, you know, in T V I’ve had, you know, very positive experiences with the studios, the networks, and the producers. They’ve all been very differential and and helpful, you know, just had good notes and stuff. So I I re I have no issues. I happily,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. No, not.
Ellen Byron
happily turn anything I write over to them. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Exactly. Exactly. I have been trying to get people to someone to do this movie because it’s one of my favorites. And I was so tickled that you chose it. and one of the reasons is is because you everyone’s seen this movie a million times because it’s public domain. They didn’t file the paperwork correctly. So
Ellen Byron
I didn’t know that.
Emily Edwards (she/her): every streaming platform on the face of the planet has charade because it was public domain. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
wow, I didn’t know that. That’s wild.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. So ye everyone involved with this earned no money besides like their initial payment because after a certain number of years they didn’t file whatever paperwork needed to be filed way back then and anybody
Ellen Byron
Wow. Wow.
Emily Edwards (she/her): can play it at any time and you can pick it up on TVT. Ugh it’s so
Ellen Byron
And the theme song is so brilliant, you know, the soundtrack. And you know, I looked up when I looked at the trailer, they did such a great graphic. I actually took a picture of it. Let me see if I can find it, because I thought, man, that’s such great marketing. And the movie did extremely well. Where okay.
Emily Edwards (she/her): It did.
Ellen Byron
So I don’t know if you can see this, but
Emily Edwards (she/her): Ooh.
Ellen Byron
what’s great is they got the it’s comedy, romance, is suspense.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Perfect. Everything you need and nothing you don’t.
Ellen Byron
It tells you exactly what to and then it’s in a blend but this is like so brilliant because it’s a blender. Comedy they do
Emily Edwards (she/her): I love that.
Ellen Byron
the comedy, romance, and suspense and then a blender that blends all the three of them. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): You know, Charade is one of those movies that when people complain that movies aren’t made for adults anymore, I feel like Charade is kind of one of those movies where I’m like, yeah, no, I haven’t seen something like this. Cause it
Ellen Byron
No, yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): seems very simple. You get two great actors, hunky, adorable, they’re thrown into chaos together, and we have to watch them s tug at the threads and fall in love at the same time. And it’s like, so good.
Ellen Byron
It’s also just but it’s very complex. I mean, that’s the thing. You
Emily Edwards (she/her): Shockingly.
Ellen Byron
know, just incredibly complex. And you do not see things coming. That’s what even now, I mean, I know that movie by heart, I’ve seen it a million times. So, but I don’t get a bored for a second watching it because it’s funny too.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
You know, it’s it’s smart. I mean, the funeral scene is is is classic where they come
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
in and you know, and she’s sitting there like like It’s just the three of the people, there’s n there are no mourners and then those guys and the and the acting is so good. I mean,
Emily Edwards (she/her): I
Ellen Byron
everybody is flawless. It’s
Emily Edwards (she/her): It’s it’s a top-tier cast of people who were extremely famous and also just like almost on the cusp of being extremely famous. And
Ellen Byron
Right. Exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): and so like you have Cary Grant, obviously, famously in his 50s, maybe sixties, and he’s like, I really
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): don’t want to be betting a 26-year-old Audrey Hepburn, but
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I guess I’ll have to. You have adorable Audrey Hepburn. She looks so young though.
Ellen Byron
She was in her thirties. She was like thirty three or something. Yeah. Yeah, no. She was like thirty three going or yeah. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): She’s a baby. And then you have Walter Matho, who is absolutely as like the great evil henchman behind everything, who is absolutely one of my favorite actors of all time.
Ellen Byron
he’s so great. Yeah, I know. I love the movie The Last Leaf. He’s so funny in that. with Elaine May, you know that movie? Yeah, I love that.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and then you have like these great character actors like George Kennedy and you know, and and James Coburn and Nick Glass who are
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
just dared to do the work, you know?
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, I know. And
Ellen Byron
And you know what’s funny though, I’ve been watching a lot. my dog herds me into the den at a certain time, and if I ignore her, she’s a giant pain in the ass. So I have to like, I go in, I sit there, I either do my exercises, I do my needle point, and I watch TV, and I’ve just been burning through all these Brit box shows.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
and I don’t know which one, because I’ve seen so many. I may have been a father brown, but they did the thing with the stamp. where the stamp,
Emily Edwards (she/her): how fun.
Ellen Byron
I think it was a father brown, where the whole the clue, the financial clue, hand you know, hinged on a valuable stamp. And I was like, wait, they stole that from charade.
Emily Edwards (she/her): think there’s a murder she wrote that also is like it
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): you know, there’s a mysterious stamp. they really get their st their time in the sun. Lucky folks.
Ellen Byron
You know, the thing the one thing that stood out to me watching it again recently that I’ve was kind of confused and then I kinda justified in my head, is like she walks into the apartment and everything’s gone. He sold everything.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
And the money he made, which I guess was two hundred fifty went into the stamps. But then but supposedly he stole all the gold initially. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
why did he need to sell everything or or was it that he used the money from that to finance the apartments and everything in it?
Emily Edwards (she/her): I believe it was that he he snitched the gold, used it to live a high class life in Paris, got Hotsy Totsy
Ellen Byron
Right. Yes. Okay.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Audrey Hepburn to be his cute wife, none
Ellen Byron
Right.
Emily Edwards (she/her): the wiser, and then had to liquidate on the fly and
Ellen Byron
Yes, on the fly, ’cause all the guys were coming after him. And then why
Emily Edwards (she/her): Because
Ellen Byron
this particular time I don’t remember why this particular time they were coming after him. You know, it’s inter No, I don’t think so. Yeah, I don’t think so either. Yeah,
Emily Edwards (she/her): I don’t think that’s ever explained, to be honest with you. It’s just suddenly
Ellen Byron
it’s just a little bit of Halley Ephron once said, You’re allowed one coincidence in a in a project and I’m like, Okay, and I s
Emily Edwards (she/her): Exactly, exactly. Because that that apartment is not a slouchy apartment and never has
Ellen Byron
No.
Emily Edwards (she/her): been a slouchy apartment in Paris. It’s like all these Louis the
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Fourteenth like flourishes. And it’s like
Ellen Byron
Yes, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): and what I really love the is the fact that they give Audrey Hepburn enough agency to be like, I still don’t want to be married to this man.
Ellen Byron
Yeah, yeah. Well she was a working woman. She had a job, you know. So and I loved how in their interviews Peter Stone said they brought up the music on top of one of his favorite lines. You know, I can’t so I hope we have all boys we have a lot of boys so we can name them all after you. You know, referencing
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
the fact he had all these identities, which is you know, just so smartly written. And, you know, they just have this great banter. So and
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes.
Ellen Byron
but the mystery elements are it just it just it all clicks, you know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): It it is. And I, you know, they don’t shy away from the peril that she experiences of
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): being, you know, we’re thinking in American in Paris, you know, this is well after the war. She’s doing well for herself. She’s she’s she rather flippantly kind of says, I’ll just go and get my old job back. And which like that’s not how
Ellen Byron
Yeah, and gets it back.
Emily Edwards (she/her): anybody thinks of work anymore, where you can just,
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): you know, walk back in and say, like, by the way, my marriage is over. I need
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): my job back. And she gets her job back, which is wonderful. And But they really do such an excellent job of making her sympathetic even though she’s not mourning her dead husband at all.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Well, she even said at the very beginning, it’s like the first scene, she’s like, I’m gonna get a divorce. So she’s out. So they have her out from the beginning. You know,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
but then I was thinking after the movie, I was thinking, so he’s basically they’re getting married. How what what is the time frame? This all took place like in a couple of days, I think. So it’s all like within
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes it’s so fast.
Ellen Byron
twenty four hours or maybe forty eight hours and they’re gonna get married. But you know, I bought it, you buy it. You know? You just
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. I I love it. Exactly. It’s you know, sh she’s sitting there on vacation in like Gestad, you know, on whose dime,
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): we don’t know. Presumably the soon-to-be ex-husbands. Her
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): best friend is there with this obnoxious child who’s spraying people with water while it’s freezing.
Ellen Byron
I know. But that opening scene is so great. And I don’t know if that was
Emily Edwards (she/her): It’s so good.
Ellen Byron
Peter or if it was Donan, where you see the gun come into you know, frame and it’s a
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes.
Ellen Byron
very James Bond moment and then it squirts water and we’re giving it away. But
Emily Edwards (she/her): And then it scorts water.
Ellen Byron
I think there’s I think if movies over is sixty years old and you haven’t seen it, that’s on you.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes, exactly. no. Be forewarned, there are spoilers ahead. It’s an older movie. Just live and deal with it,
Ellen Byron
Yes, yeah. Yes, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): folks. And again, it’s free. Anywhere where you find movies, you can find it.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. And honestly, anyone who hasn’t seen it needs to see it. I we you know, I recommended I’m in this group that meets once a week online and just the th there are four of us authors who go, you know, help each other out with various things from marketing to writing and and three of us had seen a movie and were just raving about it and you know, we
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
wanted the fourth to see it and she watched it with her husband, she was like And I’m like, no, how can you not just like be completely
Emily Edwards (she/her): No! Out of the group!
Ellen Byron
yes banned, banned. This is a charade loving group. You are not allowed to stay here. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): You know, I re I love the movie, also because I am a huge James Coburn fan. And I that man is a drink a tall drink of water and I will not complain
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): about ever seeing having having James Coburn on my screen. And
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I my favorite thing about his character is like he he has this like overused Texan drawl because his character is named Tix. It’s so bad.
Ellen Byron
Which is like so bad. Has yeah, I know. It’s it’s not even a great it’s like he didn’t really put much work into that accent.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Not at all. And he can’t stop himself from flirting with Audrey Hepper and every single line out of his mouth, even when he’s chucking lit matches at her, he’s like,
Ellen Byron
Yeah, I d
Emily Edwards (she/her): who is this girl and I’m gonna try to make her like me?
Ellen Byron
Exactly, exactly. It’s just I think it’s his must be his innate nature. So yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I had to have been. He was just like the this was before I wanna say Magnificent Seven, anybody’s
Ellen Byron
it was after. Magnificent Seven was nineteen sixty.
Emily Edwards (she/her): He is in this wonderful movie that is kind of a caper. And I’m sure you’ve seen it. The President’s Analyst, which is just an
Ellen Byron
I never saw that. Okay, okay, okay.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I’m gonna make you watch it and come back. Because it’s absolut it’s it’s an absolute farce, sort of like
Ellen Byron
Really?
Emily Edwards (she/her): who done it caper. It’s one of the funniest movies I’ve ever seen in my life. And he
Ellen Byron
wow.
Emily Edwards (she/her): because he’s also like six foot four and gangly.
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): And so it’s like all this wonderful physical comedy with him. And one of the things that I love about Charade, rather than go down an ad an additional
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): detour that I love so much, is Charade is so good at really playing with physical type. And as Audrey Hepburn, there’s multiple times throughout the entire plot where she is looking at Cary Grant and she’s like, You’re so handsome, you can’t be bad. And you want desperately to believe that. But at this in 1967, you’re an astute enough movie audience. In 1963, I
Ellen Byron
No, nineteen sixty three. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): got the year wrong. Thank you for correcting me. But in nineteen sixty
Ellen Byron
Sure, it’s okay.
Emily Edwards (she/her): three, you’re still an astute enough audience to know that just because he’s
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): handsome doesn’t mean that he’s gonna be good.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. She so wants him to be, you know, she really gives him the edge as as much as she can. You know, she ’cause she so wants him to be a good guy. And
Emily Edwards (she/her): Goodness, yeah. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
you know, when you see the movie the first time, you’re not sure you really they he does such a great job of misleading and then it going one direction then another. I mean that it’s just it’s beautifully directed, beautifully edited and beautifully written. It’s just classic.
Emily Edwards (she/her): It r it really is. you know, it’s certainly not held up to the same level of Hitchcock movies or other, you know, great f sort of thriller who done it. And I wonder I really do wonder why that might be.
Ellen Byron
I think part of it might be because it’s a caper.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm.
Ellen Byron
And and and also ’cause it’s got a lot of hum I mean, I if you look at those lists, it’s very hard to find comedies.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
And it’s one of my bones I pick with even the mystery world. Like, you know, this I mean I’m thrilled that I’m doing cozy and cocktails at Boucher Con and I’m very grateful to them. but there’s no award category for best humorous slash cozy. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and you know, it’s true in film, it’s true in T V. that, you know, the I mean if you look at the Oscars, how often do humorous movies get nominated? If you look at the Emmys, well the category they always end with is best drama, not
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
best comedy. It’s always in second position. And to me, you know, it’s it and I w and I say now we give much more society gives much more weight to what gives us pain than what gives us pleasure. It’s
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm.
Ellen Byron
like we feel, you know, guilty for laughing and and maybe it’s more of a US, you know, an American thing too. I mean, look how the French idolized Jerry Lewis, who is like it couldn’t have been lower on my list, my personal list of humor of people I think
Emily Edwards (she/her): Agreed.
Ellen Byron
are funny. but at least, you know, they treated him like a god. And
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
so I think that is probably why, you know, and maybe also because Hitchcock came first,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
Still but but even you know the thing about Hitchcock is, you know, there are twists, but there are the thing I love about charade is how many twists there are. Like you
Emily Edwards (she/her): Right.
Ellen Byron
think you’re settling in and then it twists again and then you settle in and it twists again and twists again until the very, very last scene when it’s just that great reveal, and I won’t spell
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
it out, but it’s like you’re not ex if you it’s the first time you’re seeing the movie, you’re not expecting that. It’s just one final twist. And I And I think Hitchcock, you know, was a genius and no one built suspense better than he did. He really laid the groundwork. but I don’t think any of his movies have that like boom boom boom boom. But because he didn’t do capers. You know, his
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
psychological.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. No, it’s true. I I hope my books are funny. I think that I I’ve been told
Ellen Byron
I’m sure they are.
Emily Edwards (she/her): that they’re funny. I I agree with you that one of the things that I think that mystery, and I’m sure you most people agree with that mystery and comedy are wonderful bedfellows because in the same way that comedy and horror are wonderful bedfellows, because when everything About reality is pulled out from underneath you, if you don’t immediately collapse into hysterics or, you know, a a catatonic state, one of the obviously one of our greatest defense mechanisms is keeping things at arm’s length and making jokes about it. It’s one of the reasons
Ellen Byron
Yes. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): why many cultures, when you go to funerals, you are going to end up laughing and telling funny stories about the about the recently
Ellen Byron
Right.
Emily Edwards (she/her): deceased. And so I feel like mystery and comedy hand in hand, obviously. It’s so it’s so easy to sort of say, like, I need to protect myself from the danger that is in front of me by,
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): you know, cracking a joke. Or in Audrey Hepburn’s case in this in this movie is like flirting my face off, because if
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): your defense mechanism is you know, finding a man who’s gonna take care of you, which is probably something that an Audrey Hepburn character is very used to doing. Then one of the things that brings comfort to her is having a man hit on her.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Right. Yes, very true.
Emily Edwards (she/her): And so I, you know, I f I find it really bizarre, honestly, that because I’ve met people who do not like this movie and which I find I know what’s wrong with people. But it
Ellen Byron
Impossible. What’s wrong with them?
Emily Edwards (she/her): it is a movie that I think that if you are having expectations of you know maybe like if you’re a good feminist, you don’t, you know, flirt with strange men, you know, which is like, okay, you know, it’s half the fun.
Ellen Byron
Well, it’s you know, it’s really it’s it’s tricky to apply the standards of one decade to another.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Absolutely.
Ellen Byron
You know, ’cause one thing I talk about when I talk about humor when I’m teaching a w webinar I teach is that humor evolves and what makes us laugh now is not what made people laugh ten years ago or twenty years ago or a hundred years ago. so you know, and the same with social standards, you know, it’s like saying, Well, no woman should look, she worked, she had a job, you
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
know, a job she could easily regain, God bless her, sorry. You know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Exactly. And you one of the funniest scenes in the whole movie is when they’re in the club and they’re trying to pass the orange. And it’s just
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): it’s so unbelievably funny, especially because I don’t think that was ever a part of nightlife when I had been part of nightlife
Ellen Byron
No.
Emily Edwards (she/her): of, you know, doing parlor games sort of in a jazz club, which is super
Ellen Byron
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): bizarre and super French.
Ellen Byron
Yes, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): But the discomfort they have of of touching bodies, I think is really fun when you’re
Ellen Byron
What’s and what I like is that it looks real. I mean, I’m sure the actors were as uncomfortable you know, didn’t have to act so much. You know, there’s a r
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, exactly. I’m trying to to pass that orange. And but it’s so funny
Ellen Byron
Right.
Emily Edwards (she/her): to see people, the characters, they’re dealing with the ramifications of let’s be honest here, Audrey Hepburn’s husband being chucked off of a train. His body is like desecrated. But then when they’re it when they’re flirting or they’re talking or they’re doing the orange scene and things like that, they’re so uncomfortable with. Bodies and I’m like, you wouldn’t be here in the movie if there wasn’t a body.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. True. Very true.
Emily Edwards (she/her): So but I l I you know, I think it’s really important that you corrected me on the year because nineteen sixty three, nineteen sixty four is such a different time from nineteen sixty seven.
Ellen Byron
a hundred percent. Yes. I mean this movie probably would not have done well if it was made any time that it I mean, yeah, it was made in exactly the right time period for it.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and I’m not quite sure if it came out before or after JFK was assassinated. I think it came out before.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
I’m gonna look that up because that’s you know, it’s an interesting time frame because again, the world was so different be you know, th it would have been much more successful if it came out before
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
than if it came out after.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Charade came out September twenty-fourth, nineteen sixty-three. So that was just before that’s
Ellen Byron
wow, like literally a month before.
Emily Edwards (she/her): literally like releasing a movie just before 9-11. Like when you are thinking about the catastrophic
Ellen Byron
Wow. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): world-changing, like switch flip, you know. And I was
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): actually just watching Amy Polar’s interview with Will Farrell, and they were talking about being on SNL literally like the week after. 9/11 and being like, Yeah, that was a great time for comedy. Absolutely fantastic time to be writing sketches.
Ellen Byron
Well, I my writing partner and I had written a screenplay where the protagonist fakes her own death because she’s
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
mad at guy and she wants to go to her own funeral and see people like mourn her and see how sad he is. the we it was supposed to go out we we turned it in the week before nine eleven. Guess what did not go out nine?
Emily Edwards (she/her): No, no, no.
Ellen Byron
Yeah, it went out. I think they finally took it out. we were with William Morris at the time and they finally took it out maybe a month later and it was still too soon. It was way too soon. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): No, yeah, no. I remember there was an adaptation of a Dave Barry book called Big Trouble that came out and literally the punchline is someone brings a bomb on a plane and it came out like September tenth and that movie just d disappeared. And
Ellen Byron
Yikes. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): yeah, it was actually quite funny. But unfortunately, no, no. But you know, we we’re dealing with this time now that I think I d I haven’t seen any pushback against things like murder mysteries and you know thrillers and things like that, even though
Ellen Byron
No.
Emily Edwards (she/her): the narrative of our life is very death focused. Sorry to get the com the comedy writer on the show and be like, and let’s turn it dark, everyone. But
Ellen Byron
That’s okay.
Emily Edwards (she/her): but but it it is interesting that you bring up that this happened, you know, this very fancy light, you know, rel but not to yammer. A lot of banter.
Ellen Byron
Lot of banter. It was very banter heavy.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
And you know, it’s interesting because I think one thing you with that movie is you really see Peter’s theater roots in it. because
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
it’s a very dialogue heavy movie. there’s a sh and that’s what actually is one of the great things about it, is that while there’s a ton of action, there’s also a lot of dialogue.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and if you looked at I’m sure if you looked at a screenplay, you would see pages and pages of dialogue.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
but it it’s very quippy and bantery, so it goes by quickly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
but you know even there’s even a lot of dialogue during some of the action scenes. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, which is what which I find really important. I’ve read a bunch of sort of more literary mysteries recently that I will not name drop, but I there was a surprising lack of dialogue in in a
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): in a fair number of them. And I really was surprised because for me, the and I’m sure again, most people, you’re you glean so much about character and you glean so much about the situation, where it is again the old save the cat. Pope in the pool. If you need exposition, they better be doing something interesting. You know, you have to have something interesting and visually arresting on screen. And, you know, again, one of the greatest scenes ever in movie history is when Cary Grant takes a shower with his with his with his suit on. And it does, it does very little aside from tell you that their relationship
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): is progressing. But it’s just one of the most visually arresting things you’ve ever seen on screen.
Ellen Byron
‘Cause as you’ve never seen it and I haven’t seen it since and it it’s it’s an odd moment because it doesn’t really tie into story.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
it’s not like he’s you know, it does and it doesn’t. but yeah, it’s a great visual moment. I always when I’m writing in my mysteries, I’m always looking for and I think it’s because of my screenwriting background, even though my original background was a playwright, is looking for a visual, you know, that that there’s stuff can happen
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
while people like I’m writing the the first book in a news series that I I can’t go into detail yet. but, you know, it’s set in New Orleans and and so I have, you know, some of the conver like there are second lines. And so, you know, they join a second line while they’re having a conversation. You know, so they’re like wave you know, they’re ha waving a handkerchief in the middle of a so it’s just so there’s some visual, you know, and it’s
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
not just people talking for pages. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. You you know what I would say that the this movie does better than a lot of other movies that I have seen is that it has a B plot that doesn’t feel like a separate B plot. So you have the A plot of man man is murdered, where’s the money? And you know it’s
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): like you’re very like, where’s the money, Lebowski? Where did it go? $250,000. Which was stolen from the French resistance. So, like, not only does it come with the like the heave of my husband stole $250,000, but it’s also got the emotional weight of, and by doing so, he helped the Nazis. And she’s like,
Ellen Byron
Yeah, I know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): my God, who was I married to? But the B plot Of the love story is not like, you know, meanwhile, King Arthur and Sir Bedevere
Ellen Byron
Yeah, yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): are not more than a swallows flight away, you from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. That’s how I always feel when I’m trying to write in a B plot in
Ellen Byron
Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): books. You don’t want it to be that jarring. And I feel like Sheree
Ellen Byron
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): does such an excellent job of seamlessly moving in the A plot and B plot.
Ellen Byron
Yes, absolutely. ‘Cause they’re very t they’re very integrated. So yeah,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
no, I and that’s something I strive for too, is is to integrate them and and at least tie them in at the end in some way. But you know, so ’cause it gets distracting.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. But they
Ellen Byron
I was just watching I one of my many British crime dramas, something called after the flood, and they kept going to the B story, which eventually did tie to the A story, or some aspect of the A story. It was a little amorphous, but it just got boring. ‘Cause it was like, I’m
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
not as in you know, if it’s if you’re c giving it too much weight, it’s like I’m not as invested. That’s why it’s a B story. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Exactly. It can be so jerky. And, you know, I I’ve talked about this with my friend David Avaloni, who was on my Miller’s Crossing episode. Feel free to go back to that one. Where sometimes we’re like, if you’re not that good, don’t do the B story. It’s fine. You might just be shoehorning
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): it in there for word count, but just try
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): to Robust the A story if you can’t seamlessly do the B story because if
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): we notice like it’s almost like a font change, like where it’s like the B story is now in Helvetica, and you’re just like, God, this is awful. Please don’t do this to me.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Emily Edwards (she/her): but one of the things that I just you know, it it’s an oddly progressive movie, the way that again, 1963. It’s Audrey Hepburn, she’s wearing Shivan She mini-skirts. her her goal in life is to get re-wifed up. And you’re just like, okay, how am I applying like progressivism to this? Because in 1963 it was shockingly so. Yeah, I know.
Ellen Byron
She had a job and she didn’t have kids. So that was, you know, so that and she didn’t well, she did, I guess, eventually have kids with him, but she was in her early 30s, which is, you know, shocking then.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and well, the thing too, I was very distracted because knowing she was wearing Chivon, she her hats and her hair in that fall where she had her hair. It’s like I kept thinking, how does she have time to do her hair? You
Emily Edwards (she/her): Uh-huh.
Ellen Byron
know? And then she was a bad, a bad ponytail at one point that looked like it was like the fall was like now a ponytail, you know, that it she had that sheen that that B I V rap. You know, that those giant hats how then I like, How does she keep those hats on her head? So how do they stay there?
Emily Edwards (she/her): I often forget how prevalent wigs were on like women of
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): all races in the 1960s because normally we don’t think of white women nowadays wearing wearing wigs And I’m always so impressed. I was like, right, it’s fake hair. I forget. Like I want that to
Ellen Byron
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): come back.
Ellen Byron
know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I think the the denouement, the come together of all of these these storylines. Where they are in a very creepy abandoned theater and she is being hunted down in this city. She has to take public transit and it it can get very like almost Orson Wellsy, like third man
Ellen Byron
Yes, yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): aspect of it. And I just again, this is I feel like Stanley Donnen is probably not as well known for this as he is for other, you know, truly fantastic movies. I
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): But I I like the way this is shot is very modern too. It feels like a night like a very
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): pop arty, you know, very forward thinking movie. Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
Lot of a lot of quick edits, very yeah. And that whole thing with that I I’ve never, you know, I spent a lot of time in the theater and I’ve never seen a floor with that, you know, with all that. I mean, I I don’t
Emily Edwards (she/her): The mechanisms, yeah.
Ellen Byron
yeah, that was like fascinating. I I’d love to know where that was or if it still exists or you know, why? Why do you need like so many of those? You know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
did they know about that theater beforehand. Like I wonder if you got a s if you got a pre shooting script, if it was written in because P Peter actually spent a lot I guess ’cause I read his bio, you know, that he spent a lot of time in Paris and he grew up so ’cause his mother it was so interesting, his mother left his father for some Hungarian agent and they moved to Paris. And because he was from Los Angeles. His dad was a screenwriter. I mean, it was all this stuff I didn’t know about him because I always thought of him as just his theater New York theater person, which is what he became.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
but apparently his he spent, you know, because his mom and stepdad lived in Paris, he spent a lot of time there. So, like, did he know about that theater and its fascinating floor
Emily Edwards (she/her): Right.
Ellen Byron
and write to it? Or is it something the production designer found or Stanley Donnen found? You know, because it’s so unique.
Emily Edwards (she/her): It’s so unique. And you know, w if you’ve been in the theater, you know that some stages do have trapdoors, but having like have that many of them and the fall
Ellen Byron
absolutely. Yes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): would absolutely kill you. And just
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): that that gravity straight to the concrete floor. It’s just you’re right.
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Like you couldn’t leave that up to a location scout. Like, please, can you find me
Ellen Byron
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): a deadly theater underground? Like
Ellen Byron
With a thousand different trapdoors in one voice. Like, you know, I just happened to know
Emily Edwards (she/her): And the location scout is like, do you have a carpet color preference? Cause we’re getting that serious and in the weeds on
Ellen Byron
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): it.
Ellen Byron
So yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): But no, but I I
Ellen Byron
Now I want to get my hands on a on a original draft of that.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I know. Ooh, that would be fabulous. Not to mention, just so you can pull apart the absolutely gorgeous dialogue, because at the end, she makes so many horny jokes in this, which I just love. She is flinging herself left, right, and center at Cary
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Grant, as most people would if we were in the presence of Cary Grant. And it it’s again so kind of ribaled for 1963.
Ellen Byron
Yeah, I mean it’s it’s yeah, it is. I mean, ’cause there’s no, you know, it’s yeah, it is.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, like I I spent a little while doing a it is sophisticated.
Ellen Byron
It’s sophisticated. It’s very sophisticated.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. We have no bones about the fact that she’s a she’s a girl about town in Paris and she’s going to know the Parisian ways of love. And you’re just like, this is great.
Ellen Byron
Exactly. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): It’s just so flirty and wonderful. And the and I guess the stakes aren’t us until Walter Mathell pulls a gun on poor Audrey Hepburn while she’s standing in that beautiful colonnade. Like the stakes are pretty low, you know.
Ellen Byron
No, I I would actually disagree. I think the stakes are precause, you know, she doesn’t I mean, especially when she thinks that that the problem is Cary Grant, you know,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
so and then she’s like doesn’t know if if he’s good or bad.
Emily Edwards (she/her): That’s true.
Ellen Byron
and then also those guys are trying to get you know, sh are they gonna kill her? I mean, what is she you know, so I think the stakes are I I think that’s one thing that makes the movie so interesting, the balance. And you were talking
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
about this earlier, the balance between the romance and the high stakes of these guys willing to kill, you know, someone is willing to kill for that money.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
And and you know, everyone, all three of those guys die. So she’s
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
next in line.
Emily Edwards (she/her): They’re working through the henchmen, yeah.
Ellen Byron
And is the person is the murderer the man she’s falling in love with? You know, those are pretty high stakes.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Well, when you put it like that, no, I’m like no, no, I’m
Ellen Byron
Sorry.
Emily Edwards (she/her): so glad you did because I was thinking to myself, it’s like, the worst thing that happens is this two hundred and fifty thousand dollars just goes to the wind. But that’s not true.
Ellen Byron
Well, you know what what’s I think what’s I think what distracts you know, what distracts a little bit is the quippy dialogue. The
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
light quippy dialogue. So the dialogue is a very light quippy bantery feel, while this you know, which can undercut stakes you know, may undercut the stakes at some points. You know, especially
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
if it like someone’s died but she’s still trying to get in bed, you know? It’s like, you know, she could be next on the list, but first. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes, exactly. It’s like Yeah. I can forgive one dead body, but once we’re up to two dead bodies and maybe even three dead bodies, I’m having second thoughts.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. But that’s why it’s it may seem like low stakesy at some points because like her priorities, you know, shift from being like I wanna stay alive to I wanna, you know, screw this guy. So and so I think
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s a very good point. Because again, I I keep focusing on the money because again, like the the instigating factor is this missing two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which is just an absolute gargantuan sum of money, even now. But in nineteen sixty-three
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): dollars is a huge amount of money. And I love how much she doesn’t want it for herself. She’s
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): never hungry for the money.
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Which I think is a really interesting choice that they give her, that she just wants to be done with it. So
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Absolutely.
Emily Edwards (she/her): she she especially because, you know, she has a relatively well-off life, but because she’s actively divorcing her husband, you can kind of get the the feeling that she’s not she’s a noble person in in this. It’s
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): she’s like, I’m going after my happiness. I don’t care what he can buy me. I don’t care that, you know, being married, even if it’s a bad marriage, you know, buys my stability. I’d much rather just be free of this and go
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): back to working as an interpreter and hanging out with Sophie and her obnoxious child.
Ellen Byron
I know that little boy is obnoxious.
Emily Edwards (she/her): But it all rests on his tiny little shoulders.
Ellen Byron
I actually when they kidnap him I thought it might go in a ransom of Red Chief direction, but it didn’t, so it just kinda like yeah, they kind of dissipated. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. Thank goodness. Yeah. I you know, I it makes you as someone who lives in the greater LA area, I really do long for a little bit of that romance of Paris where it’s like, of course Thursday there’s a stamp market on the Champs Elyse.
Ellen Byron
I know.
Emily Edwards (she/her): And you’re just like, Man, where would they even have that here? Everybody’s sweating their butts off, like at the edge of Griffith
Ellen Byron
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Park.
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): But like again, having that knowledge of Paris and that knowledge of knowing that there are different markets that pop up one day a week. And if you’re in the you’re in the know, which is such an interesting
Ellen Byron
Yeah, I think that came from Peter’s personal experience with the city. And
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
who knows, maybe when he was a kid he was into stamps. I don’t you know. So I came away wanting to know a lot more about Peter.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. But I I love the right? He seems so interesting, especially the background to how that came to screen. But I I love that this movie would not have worked. If more people were aware of there being things like a stamp market in Paris, in the same way that there’s the one good antiques, you know, fair that people everybody
Ellen Byron
Right.
Emily Edwards (she/her): always tells you to go and shop at when you go to Paris and then you go, and everything is $90,000 because they’re French antiques. But exactly. Will FedEx deal with this? And the fun fact
Ellen Byron
In there. You’re not how are you gonna get them home anyway? So Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): is: FedEx will ship anything if you pay them enough money.
Ellen Byron
We were once on our honeymoon we were in Venice and a gondola w drove f you know, rode by for UPS and it was like painted in the colors and had the logo on it for UPS. It was like such a we didn’t get a pic I wish we got a picture. It was just it was ep it was classic. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): that’s the greatest thing ever. That is wonderful. But yeah, no, this is this is such an interesting movie because I don’t think it, you know, we’ve taught since starting this show, I’ve done episodes on on, you know, Cohen Brothers movies and you know the thin man and we touched upon Sherlock for the BBC and other things. And I don’t and I think that charade, because of its ubiquity, more people have seen it and appreciated it and Unfortunately for them, they didn’t earn any money off of it, but you know, we all have gotten to appreciate it. But it’s it’s it’s a movie that I would like to see more people kind of emulate when it comes to
Ellen Byron
Yes, I agree.
Emily Edwards (she/her): suspense a and and murder mysteries.
Ellen Byron
I guess they did a remake of it and I I can’t imagine it was any good. Let me look, ’cause
Emily Edwards (she/her): No.
Ellen Byron
I remember I saw something, it had to was it I forgot what it was called. and it was with Thandy Newton, who’s, you know, a wonderful little actress, but you know, I mean it’s I I I would never sign on
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. And Mark Wahlberg. There’s
Ellen Byron
my god, that’s I I would never I don’t I took a lot of balls to s part my language to sign on for it, you know, to be Audrey Epber and Carrie Grant.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. O often I ask
Ellen Byron
What was it called?
Emily Edwards (she/her): if you could imagine remaking this, who would you cast? But do you think do you think there’s anybody up to the task at the moment?
Ellen Byron
not really. Cause I mean, we don’t there’s no one, I guess you could say George Clooney is
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
cause I was thinking who is Dapper? Who’s got that Dapper quality? Like Ryan Reynolds is funny and bantery, but he’s not, you know, he’s a boy. He comes across as
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
a boy. You know, you need someone who comes across as a man. So yeah, it could be George. I mean, George Clooney is as close as you’re gonna get. And for the woman,
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
geez, I don’t know. There’s probably an actress out there, but No one is coming to mind. As
Emily Edwards (she/her): No, I know. This is this is actually incredibly difficult. And one of the things I think we discussed at the end of The Thin Man is that like there’s not a lot of actors and actresses who come off as adults anymore. You need a man. You need a woman.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Well that’s why I was saying George Clooney actually comes off as a dapper man. So
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes, exactly. And and you need someone in the Audrey Hepburn part who looks like someone who can have a dead or ex-husband, who has a friend with a child, who understands like the full length and breadth of the world.
Ellen Byron
Gwyneth Paltrow a little bit, maybe, when she’s ’cause she can do comedy, but she’s a little wan. There’s a little whiny, but but she’s Gwyneth Pau Gwyneth Paltrow.
Emily Edwards (she/her): I’m sorry, I missed the name. yeah, yeah, but she can be a little passive, yeah.
Ellen Byron
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I know. I’ll wake up in the middle of the night and go, I know
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. Man.
Ellen Byron
But but you know, my mother was of an age and she was a person who was saying, there are no movie stars, they’re not making them like you still go, mom, shut up, stop saying that. But she’s not wrong in a
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
sense. I mean, the kind of but like I say, you know, it’s a different time.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
and and it has been ever since the late sixties. So so
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. No, I know. No, it’s such an interesting like ’cause they also need the chemistry. And there are a couple of actors that really do like they can have chemistry with like a damp umbrella. And you know, I think of George Clooney is definitely someone who has chemistry with literally anybody he’s across from. Robert Downey
Ellen Byron
You know, like a younger Pierce Brosnan could have you know, he the guys who had that kind of dapper quality.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. Like Robert Downey Jr. is someone who has comistry with literally anyone that he’s across from. No. He doesn’t
Ellen Byron
Yeah, but he’s doesn’t ha he would never I’d never see him in this role.
Emily Edwards (she/her): have the danger that might be needed. Not anymore.
Ellen Byron
Well no yes. But again it’s yeah, there’s yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): And and I d and I can’t think of too many female stars that have been allowed to like really showcase that kind of chemistry. I think Emma Stone is someone who can have that kind of chemistry, but she’s in a weird spot right now and it’s like, God bless her for her weird stuff. Yeah.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Well again, it well it’s not just the chemistry. It’s like on one hand for the guy it’s the dapper kind of and the woman it’s an elegance. And
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
I can’t think of any actresses who have a combination of elegance and humor. You know, I mean, Angelina Jolie is very elegant in her own way.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yes.
Ellen Byron
Patrician, but she’s there’s no humor there.
Emily Edwards (she/her): There’s no humor there.
Ellen Byron
s and and so, you know, I no one is coming to mind who has both.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, but yeah.
Ellen Byron
Interesting. I mean Carrie Carrie Washington is I think is a underrated. She’s very funny. yeah,
Emily Edwards (she/her): True, she is very funny.
Ellen Byron
but you know, but again that elegance that kind
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah.
Ellen Byron
of like Javon she is going to design for you and only you is
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah, exactly. I mean, when was the last time there was a movie where it was like, this hookout designer is gonna be doing the costuming? Like, I mean, I’m thinking of, you know, Armani with that Kevin Costner movie in the early nineteen nineties, The Untouchables he did. Yeah. But that’s been a while.
Ellen Byron
yeah, I don’t yeah. I mean, I guess they they have them doing it, but it’s just there’s no one it’s again that combination.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Tom Ford does all of his movies, but yeah.
Ellen Byron
I mean there are people like, you know, Kate Blanchett who have a very elegant kind of style, but I
Emily Edwards (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ellen Byron
don’t there it doesn’t translate to their persona and what they have on screen. So yeah, we have.
Emily Edwards (she/her): No. Yeah. What an interesting problem that we’ve rooted out towards the end of our episode that we can’t solve.
Ellen Byron
People are welcome to comment and share. What do you think? If you had
Emily Edwards (she/her): Ex Exactly.
Ellen Byron
to cast this as of now, twenty twenty six, who would you cast in these roles?
Emily Edwards (she/her): Yeah. I need to know. So find us online. Ellen, actually where can everybody find you online in order to pepper you with these kinds of things?
Ellen Byron
They can find me. my website is Ellen Byron dot com. And then I’m at Instagram is Ellen Byron Maria Dorigo, which was the pen name I used for a series. Facebook the same. I also blog with a blog called Chicks on the Case. And I’m on a face I’m part of a Facebook Facebook group called Cozy Mystery Crew. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Awesome. And I will you hit us with your your titles that are out this week and next week again really quickly.
Ellen Byron
Yes, it’s All Aboard for Murder, Golden Motel Mystery Number Three is July twenty-eighth, and a murderer’s guide to Mardi Gras, vintage cookbook number five is August fourth.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Fabulous. I will have links to buy those or pre-order those in the show notes and hit us all up on social media and let us know what you think because we are
Ellen Byron
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (she/her): stumped for the first time ever in our lives. We are stumped and speechless.
Ellen Byron
Did they come up
Emily Edwards (she/her): Thank you so much, Ellen, for giving me giving us your time.
Ellen Byron
Yeah. Thank you for having me. And go watch charade if you’ve never seen it. You will be glad you did.
Emily Edwards (she/her): Exactly.
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