Finishing up Season One of Silver Screen Sleuths, guest Lawerence Allan and host Emily J. Edwards are bringing you a jumbo-length discussion of Shane Black’s 2016 cult classic, THE NICE GUYS starring Russell Crowe, Ryan Gosling, Kim Basinger, Margaret Qualley, and Angourie Rice. Two longtime Angelenos wax poetic about the role of crime in the city of Angels, noir fiction, and the existential dillemias of sitting in traffic.
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Transcript:
Emily (00:00.792)
I know! Greetings, gumshoes and welcome to another episode of Silver Screen Sleuth. My name is Emily Edwards, and you can tell by me laughing that I am here with the wonderful guest, Larry Allen. How are you? I like I’m gonna go to you just as you’re drinking a glass of water. Take your time.
larry (00:11.934)
Ha ha.
Ha ha.
larry (00:21.368)
This is one of my favorite coffee mods because I’m I’m I’m crushing it. There we go. There we go. That’s how I’m doing it. Christmas could be any time of the year as long as it’s in your heart. Carrie Fisher. Yes. I was gonna say, Carrie Fisher kept her Christmas tree up all year. She did.
Emily (00:25.233)
Nice. Nutcracker. It’s September.
Emily (00:34.803)
It’s always Christmas in Shane Black’s heart.
Emily (00:44.597)
Did she really? She was a magical woman, wasn’t she?
larry (00:48.814)
She was. And with that, the end. We’ll see you all later, folks. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed this discussion of Carrie Fisher.
Emily (00:53.995)
Thank you for joining us. We’ll see you at BoucherCon twenty twenty six.
But we are discussing 2016’s The Nice Guys, which was written and directed by Shane Black, or I got the movie all wrong by this look of surprise on Larry’s. No! The classic Who’dun It in Locked Room Mystery Star Wars. It’s a How Catchum of Epic Proportion. I’m gonna kill Larry, I’m sorry.
larry (01:04.477)
We are. No no we’re gonna talk about Star Wars! I wanted to talk about Star Wars. Well who is Darth Vader?
larry (01:24.398)
Anyway, yes.
Okay, no. It’s been a long twenty twenty six. So yes, no, we’re we’re t I almost said the long kids good night. No. We’re talking about That’s true. No, we’re talking about the nice guys.
Emily (01:30.986)
It a long week, everybody.
Emily (01:39.634)
It was another failed movie by Shane Black.
Emily (01:46.812)
Which is a delightful movie. How catch set nineteen n seventy seven of our hometown of Los Angeles.
larry (01:48.652)
It’s a d
larry (01:53.267)
that’s right. I listen, I I don’t think it’s a delightful movie. I personally don’t know why it’s not constantly being talked about. Like like I just don’t I I don’t understand. I I I mean I get it, I guess, like it didn’t do well, so maybe people didn’t see it, but I don’t know why like everyone didn’t see it. Because I think it’s like because I think it’s like it’s and it’s so funny because like
Emily (02:08.7)
Yeah.
Emily (02:15.238)
Yeah.
larry (02:20.802)
The last time I was on, I was like, this is a perfect movie. And I would say, this is also a perfect movie. In in like how the story is told, what the story is. I think the performance are great. like I think the use of humor is fantastic. I think the use of melancholy and and and deep pain i is fantastic. you know, like I think it is it and weirdly, because I was watching it again in preparation.
Emily (02:26.002)
I agree.
larry (02:49.602)
I don’t I don’t just sh roll up. I I I prepare. So I was rewatching again, I’m like, this is kind of an interesting and I and purely kind of because of casting, an interesting companion piece to LA Confidential.
Emily (02:51.806)
no.
Emily (03:03.943)
Agree! wholly and completely, two phenomenal LA Noirs, which as you also write, is a genre that I think does not get nearly enough attention as it deserves. When you think of noir, you often think of San Francisco, New York, a place with weather. And I think Los Angeles is su in the passage of time, you know, the weed seasons, but like LA.
larry (03:07.884)
Yeah. Yes.
larry (03:21.174)
Yeah. And a passage of time. Yeah.
Emily (03:30.055)
Is such a wonderful place for Ellie for Noirs. The only place for LA Noirs, I would say. but like, unless it’s Louisiana, which also would be awesome, but I don’t trust Shane Black to write that. but but LA Noir is such because people don’t think we have a sense of humor, you know, of the people who live here. And I would argue we are some of the funniest nut jobs in the world.
larry (03:32.578)
Yeah. Yeah.
W unless it’s Louisiana.
larry (03:43.918)
True.
larry (03:53.058)
Yeah.
larry (03:57.952)
I I yes, I would w because I think yes, I agree, and I think in part, I think you have to have a sense of humor to live in a place that I mean I was joking that there there’s no passage of time, but to a degree there’s weird, like no passage of time. So it is kind of like Satra’s no exit. Like I think if you don’t have a sense of humor, you will go insane. Like I think and and just like
Emily (04:19.864)
Yes, yes.
Emily (04:24.11)
Yes.
larry (04:26.86)
You can’t escape traffic. You can’t escape the sun. I mean, I I hear there’s people that like the sun, but as as someone who burns, I I don’t understand. You know, or or just like the you know, almost a lot of people move here to to make it big in something, you know, be it be it the entertainment business or there’s obviously aeronautics, we now have Silicon Beach, and like I think
Emily (04:35.713)
Shh.
larry (04:55.99)
I I I was on a panel once and someone asked like ’cause there was a New Yorker with me and they asked, like, well, what’s the difference between New York and and LA? And we kind of came around Well, one’s better. so so like New York is like, you know, it’s obviously it’s it’s denser and but it it and it’s you know and you can make it there, you’ve made it anywhere, but like there’s a there’s a old world quality to New York. You know what I mean? Like where there’s a fantasy
Emily (05:04.44)
How many hours do you have?
Yeah.
larry (05:25.938)
world to LA. There’s there’s because I mean the major industry here is obviously entertainment. So and I like so there’s a fantasy of I can make it big here. I can become famous here. And it might be famous in, you know, art or music or, you know, air aeronautics. We all have apps now. you know, who knows? But like so it’s it’s I think it’s that fantasy world.
Emily (05:46.037)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, who knows?
larry (05:55.83)
And and it’s also like, you know what are like how many places have you been around in LA that are like, that was a location for a movie? You know, my son’s going to Venice High School. you know, Greece was shot there. Greece was shot there. What this one coffee shop in Culver City, I disc I discovered was Flynn’s Arcade in Tron. Like, yeah, you know, and it’s like once you see you’re like,
Emily (06:05.724)
Yeah, yeah. Greece. Yeah.
Emily (06:20.808)
how cool.
larry (06:24.209)
okay, yes, that’s cle if the establishing shot that is clearly Flynn’s arcade from Tron. You know, or just anything. So to kind of like br bring it back to the movie, ’cause everyone’s here for the movie discussion. Like like what’s n
Emily (06:29.248)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (06:36.355)
No, they’re not. They’re here for you. Let me tell you, you the the Thin Man actually is like wildly far and away our best performing episode. So people really are actually here to listen to you.
larry (06:44.871)
Well, well. Looks look who’s gonna take over the podcast. coo, coo, coo. No, but that’s what but to kind of bring it back to the nice guys, what’s really cool about this movie. It was shot in Wa it as far as I know, I believe it, shot in LA. Like there are clearly recognizable places that are Los Angeles. There was one shot when and then then we can maybe
Emily (06:50.56)
Hey hey.
Emily (07:01.397)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (07:08.587)
Yeah.
larry (07:13.719)
contextualize the movie a little better than randomly jumping around. Well there there is this one shot when Healy, played by the great Russell Crowe, is gonna go beat up Ryan Gosling, played by the great Ryan Gosling. he’s going up a hill to Ryan’s house and I’m like, I think that hill is close to mine because I recognize the shape of downtown in that context. And I think that hill is very close to Baldwin Hills. Like like it’s just like I think I know. Like so it just it feels
Emily (07:14.742)
Yes.
Emily (07:21.023)
Yes.
Emily (07:33.024)
Yeah.
Emily (07:38.761)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
larry (07:44.684)
You know, there’s other Hollywood movie or there’s other movies set in LA, I should say it that way, that are clearly not made in Los Angeles. Yeah. Like the first one I c I can ca think of is Keanu, which is a great movie, but you watch that movie and you’re like, You’re not in Los Angeles. That’s that’s Toronto or Atlanta or wherever. It’s like those are not LA curves. Like like that is not look so this this this movie Yeah, yeah, right.
Emily (07:48.48)
Mm-hmm.
Here. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (07:57.532)
Right. But that’s Toronto. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Yeah Exactly. I know those street lights, that’s Hancock Park, like yeah.
larry (08:12.107)
So like this is very clearly a Los Angeles film and I and I think it needs to be an LA story. Like I don’t think you could kind of set it anywhere else. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (08:24.37)
No, because of the time period that he chose. So really quickly, 1977 Los Angeles, Ryan Gosling is playing a private detective who’s needs to find a girl, and Russell Crowe is playing a heavy essentially who needs to go and beat up Ryan Gosling because he’s tracking down a girl. And so we have a murder mystery linked into the automotive industry, linked to the gas crisis, linked to all these wonderful political things that are happening in 1977 that suck. Yeah.
larry (08:46.679)
To the to the yeah, to the Dus Justice Department. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, like there’s you know, we get to see protests against the the smog that exists in Los Angeles at the time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily (08:57.007)
Mm-hmm. Literally, my first note is not enough smog. They’re doing like an over-the-hills sort of shot. And you’re just like, I can see lights. There’s not enough smog. This was filmed in the 2000s.
larry (09:06.707)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They did not get in a TARDIS and travel in time. So Emily is like, pfft, this movie sucks. they didn’t do time travel. They didn’t shine it appropri appropriately. yeah, and and then of course there’s the porn industry. The you know, the porn industri like the the mo like the murder that kinda kicks off the whole story, or the death, I should say, it that kicks off the whole story is a very famous porn actress.
Emily (09:14.15)
Yes. Fuck this movie.
Emily (09:25.181)
Yeah.
Emily (09:31.922)
Yes.
larry (09:36.237)
crashes her car and dies and then like that’s kind of one of the reasons why in gosling’s character just and hijinks ensue. Hilarity and hijinks ensue. Yeah.
Emily (09:41.278)
Then hijinks ensue.
Yeah. Wh which is funny because I just recently watched Pulp Fiction for the first time. I am not really the world’s greatest audience for Quentin Tarantino. He ain’t my guy. where
larry (09:53.684)
yeah, huh.
larry (09:58.644)
Mm-hmm. Hey, he always only gonna make one more movie, he says, and then like he’s done.
Emily (10:03.943)
Your lips to God’s ears. But no, like I understand that he changed movie making and was really like a like a, you know, he he he sparked a thing. And whether or not I like that thing is a whole nother story. But, you know, watching Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction for the first time last week, literally, they came out when I was a small child and should not have watched them when I came out. I finally got around. But
larry (10:23.181)
Why not? watched them when I was six and I’m totally fine.
Emily (10:30.085)
Like I could I used to live in the neighborhoods where those were shot. So like they’re different n now, but like you can go like, that is definitely Highland Park. that is definitely Eagle Rock. That is definitely Atwater Village. And it was really cool. Like there’s a scene where he’s trying to pick some pump, I don’t remember which one. They’re picking up a U Haul. And I’m like, that U Haul dealership is actually still there and it’s down the road from where a friend of mine lives, which is really, really fun. And and you know, it was in it was in Pulp Fiction because his sister law was.
larry (10:35.094)
Yeah, yeah.
larry (10:54.413)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily (10:59.98)
In the movie. And I was just like, that’s so cute. I love it. but there is so I moved here in 2006, and the way that the city has changed so significantly in that time, which is how you can kind of tell that the nice guys was filmed in 2015-2016, because it still got some of the the veneer of newness to it. But it’s set in 1977, which was like a hellish time to live in Los Angeles.
larry (11:03.105)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (11:20.812)
Yeah.
larry (11:25.409)
Yeah.
larry (11:29.675)
Yeah, I can’t imagine. Like, you yeah, because at that point, you know, in seventy seven, you know, I was living in the Midwest. Like like we I didn’t know smog from anything. So like the you know, it’s it’s what’s interesting, I was thinking about this also like in context with the Thin Man. Like, I feel like seventy seven is also kind of a tipping point of of like in a weird sort of way the the maybe the PI genre or like the there I don’t know, there’s some kind of
Emily (11:35.609)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (11:48.9)
Mm-hmm.
larry (11:58.077)
moment of change that happens to like the kinds of stories and obviously I mean American culture sh s shifts significantly in 77 to like 1980, you know? And like but there but there’s did you ever see god the the the Robert Altman’s The Longa By. Have you ever seen that? So I feel like there’s a similar quality and I’m sure Shane Black who wrote Introacted just
Emily (12:11.662)
Yeah.
Emily (12:20.224)
Yes, it’s one of my favorite movies.
larry (12:26.956)
For you all paying attention, there’ll be a quiz later. The that Shane Black who wrote and directed The Nice Guys, I’m sh I’m sure he’s familiar with with the both the Chandler book and the the Altman version of it. But like I remember reading somewhere about the Robert Altman version of the Longby that go lay’s what’s this for LA Goule’s version of Marlowe is supposed to be a man out of time.
Emily (12:53.135)
Yeah.
larry (12:53.248)
that he’s he that he is kind of a holdover from the nineteen forties, even though he’s like, you know, thirty, thirty five in the movie. But he is he does have he does have some swag to him. or no wait, the kids say Riz. He has Riz. Riz.
Emily (12:59.556)
Yeah, he’s handsome as hell.
Emily (13:07.789)
Riz, which I did not know was short for charisma until someone with much younger children told me a couple of years ago.
larry (13:14.476)
yeah, if you want to embarrass children, just say the word Riz seriously in front of them. They will they won’t go. anyway, but he so he is this kind of figure out time. And in some ways, both Goslin’s character and Russell Crowe’s, they also feel like out of sync with the rest of the world. Like the world of the movie is like corrupt and and and sex filled and like all of this stuff, and they’re they’re kind of like
Emily (13:36.546)
Yeah.
larry (13:44.758)
dudes that have a moral code that is in contrast and in conflict with the moral the greater moral code of the world around them. So they almost feel out of step, you know.
Emily (13:54.986)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Like the decision to give Ryan Gosling’s character a 13-year-old daughter whom he l would die for. Like he loves that kid more than like he’s a really good dad for how shitty of a dad he is. Like he’s incredible.
larry (14:05.662)
Mm. yeah. Yeah.
larry (14:15.18)
He has he has some things in he’s doing well as a father and other things he is doing poorly as a father. And and like like the drinking. yeah, why do I get invited on for the drinking movies? Like, why not? I’m always here for the drinking detectives. so but like let’s unp I I would love to talk about Ryan Gosling’s character, March. And like
Emily (14:23.519)
Yes.
Yeah. We’re all having a drink in the afternoon.
Yes.
larry (14:44.81)
What I because there’s questions, like there is a question literally in the movie, if he’s a good detective or a bad detective. And we and we can and we can address that. But like so there’s this character who’s kind of a schmuck, who is questioning whether or not he’s a good person, whether or not he is a nice guy. v like very early on in the movie. Because he’s he he’s been hired by this older woman who she believes the the the porn star who’s been killed, which is her niece.
Emily (14:52.394)
Yes.
larry (15:14.568)
is still alive actually. Even though he believes like, nope, she’s dead, but he’s kind of taking her money. But he’s also a widow. His wife has is died. Their house is burned down. And so they’re not in a great place. He’s drinking because he is sad. Whoa, whoa. He’s he no. I mean he’s he’s clearly a guy Yeah, he’s legitimately grieving. Yeah, his you know, he’s he he his life is out of sorts, but he’s he’s
Emily (15:32.982)
Legitimately grieving his deceased wife.
larry (15:43.325)
I saw an interview with Gosling about it and he’s he he says he’s a functioning alcoholic and like he is still kind of functioning and he’s still a good dad, but he’s definitely a dad that is struggles with boundaries with his daughter, meaning like he’s oversharing. He’s like he’s a mess. He ca he’s not he’s not he is not hiding his flaws from her, you know?
Emily (15:52.191)
Yeah.
Emily (16:01.243)
Yeah, definitely.
Emily (16:05.95)
Right. He’s letting a thirteen year old know too much about the problems of adults.
larry (16:10.566)
Yes. And and and she’s but admittedly, that the girl who is actually a good detective herself, like, let’s see that spinoff. you know, she is stepping up to the plate, like and it’s obviously, you know, the perhaps unrealistic aspect of the movie is she’s handling the that well. Like she seems to have kind of handled the trauma well. I would argue that’s the magic of fiction. but
Emily (16:18.281)
Yes.
Emily (16:38.537)
Yes, exactly. A thirteen year old girl would not be that well functioning after the loss of her entire life, including her mother.
larry (16:40.492)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But but like but I I love the dynamic between the I mean it kind of speaks to how Shane Black writes, like, right? Like he loves the flipping of expectations and the you know, well if the typical dynamic would be the father’s holding on and the child’s the best, let’s let’s flip that around, see what happens. And it and it is and it is a lovely experience. Like I think it’s a re like you’re absolutely right. He there’s a great moment where
Emily (16:55.026)
Yeah.
Emily (17:04.498)
Yeah, let’s flip that.
larry (17:12.896)
The daughter’s in danger and he grabs a sports car to race off and save her. Of course, he does not really know how to handle a sports car and he and he’s also tanked. And so he in fact does not help, you know, the you know, he does not in fact help rescue his daughter. but it’s it’s it’s it’s the Ted He not Ted Healy. Healy, ’cause Ted Healy was the three Stooges guy. Anyway, I’m giving
Emily (17:21.242)
No, and he’s also tanked.
Emily (17:38.129)
Yeah.
larry (17:42.678)
Getting my Healy’s messed up. too many, but I you know, I have stories about Ted Healy. Anyway, not not that many, but he he Ted Ted Healy was not a nice guy. That’s why the three Stooges left him. He he was abusive and a drunk and he kept all kept more of the money and Mo Howards is like, Screw you, man.
Emily (17:44.403)
Too many.
Emily (17:57.938)
To know.
Emily (18:03.377)
That that could be why he’s named Healy in this movie as he’s a conniving drunk.
larry (18:06.244)
Yeah, may maybe could be. It could be. It could be. Well the but but the the he was yeah, he didn’t drink. He did he gosling’s the drink. yeah. Yeah. but in some ways Russell Crowe like I think so then let’s talk about Russell Crowe. Russell Crowe’s character. He lives above either the comedy store or some comedy club, which I which I totally love. Like I it was it was the second time I
Emily (18:11.284)
no, right, gosling is yeah. No. Healy is Russell Crowe. Yeah. Sorry.
Emily (18:28.176)
He lives above the comedy store. Yes.
larry (18:34.005)
No, it’s the most recent time I watched it, I really priest it. I’m like, wait, he’s above the comedy store. And and he’s he’s not a wit he well, he has lost his either his wife or his longtime girlfriend. It’s I think it’s wife. Yeah. It’s kind of yeah. because sh she was sleeping with his father. and and so his heart is broken and he’s kind of a mess, but he’s he’s a a tough guy, but he seems well adjusted.
Emily (18:38.17)
He’s on the strip above the comedy store.
Emily (18:48.663)
Yeah, I think wife.
larry (19:03.561)
Like for a hitman. Well, is he a hitman or is he just muscle?
Emily (19:03.653)
For a hitman, you know.
Emily (19:08.273)
I think he’s muscle that has no qualms about killing people should the needs arise.
larry (19:13.755)
Yes. I don’t think he’s ever it doesn’t seem like he was hired to ever kill anybody, but I think he’s willing because we see it, he’s willing to kill bad people if the if he can kinda get away with it. Well
Emily (19:18.489)
Right. Yes. Yes.
Emily (19:27.021)
In a bit part that Keith David absolutely nails throughout this entire movie.
larry (19:31.431)
Y yes, that’s true. That’s true. He’s great. And then the other guy, the the blue faced guy, he’s great too. Like he’s a he’s a creepy motherfucker. Nope w ’cause it cause he works real good. But but see, but he also so this question of are w the nice guys. Like so watching it this time it’s like, kind of like the dramatic question isn’t who is who killed the the girl. Like yes, that’s the dramatic question. But I think like the real
Emily (19:36.398)
Yeah, who’s a guy I couldn’t pick out of a line. Yeah, and it works real good. It’s the bull gut
Emily (19:59.672)
No, that’s that’s the mystery, if you want it.
larry (20:01.46)
That’s the mystery. But I think the real question of this movie is are we nice people? And because yes, Russell Crowe kills a bad guy, kind not quite in front of the 13-year-old, but like he he sends her for help. He’s this bad guy is is is dying dying. Like like if if she maybe gets an ambulance there, maybe he’ll live. But he’s the dying guy, the dying muscle who was sent to go beat up Russell Crowe.
Emily (20:07.108)
Yeah.
Emily (20:20.687)
Dying. Yeah.
Emily (20:28.941)
Yeah.
larry (20:31.741)
is threatening, he’s like, John Boy, who’s who’s a villain, not not Richard Thomas, is is gonna kill you, your friend, and that girl. And so Russell Crowe like kind of suffocates him, sends him on his way, chucks him, chucks him out. And and and the girl shows up, is like, Yeah, and so and so the girl comes back and is like, is he he’s and Russell Crowe’s like, he didn’t make it. And she’s like, Did you did you kill him? He’s like, No. But later in the movie, he’s beating up
Emily (20:35.716)
Yes.
Emily (20:44.175)
Awesome. Yeah. Just them up. Just in this hill in the hills.
Emily (20:53.369)
Yeah.
larry (21:00.913)
another character and he’s he will probably kill this character because this this this character that he’s fighting at the end is like the top hitman and and he is beating him and and she sees this and she asks him to stop that this isn’t the way. This isn’t the right way.
Emily (21:08.44)
Yeah.
Emily (21:15.382)
In the most beautiful 13-year-old girl I way I’ve ever heard in a movie that was like, Does did Shane Black have a 13-year-old daughter at this time? Because she goes, She sees him wailing on this guy and she goes, Mr. Healy, if you kill that man, I’ll never talk to you again. And it’s so beautiful because she’s like, This is the best threat that I got for you.
larry (21:21.547)
Maybe. Yeah.
larry (21:30.547)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Emily (21:37.449)
I will never talk to you again. And he immediately pulls back the punch and he’s just like, this thirteen-year-old girl saved your life. And it’s beautiful.
larry (21:42.484)
And Eddie’s like, hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think and I because I think there both the characters wonder who they are in the world. And like because gr Healy questions like, I’m just the guy that beats people up for money. But I w but he says the mo the the the story he tells, over the course of the investigation, somebody recognizes Healy. It’s like, you’re the guy from the diner.
Emily (22:01.74)
Yeah.
Emily (22:11.755)
Yeah.
larry (22:11.793)
And and March Russell Ryan Ryan Gosling’s character goes, and he doesn’t want to talk about it. And finally he reveals it after a very long night. He reveals what happened as he’s as Ryan Gosling’s character is getting drunk. Like a year prior, he was in a diner and some guy came in with a shotgun and he was threatening people. And he said, Yeah, without without thinking, I got up and I grabbed the gun. You know, I got shot in the arm, but I beat him up, and I was a hero. And he
Emily (22:16.161)
No, what are you talking about?
larry (22:40.501)
But the thing that meant most to him was that he felt useful. And and and I think he was beginning in this movie, I think over the course of this movie he’s questioning, am I useful beating people up? Is that my purpose? And so like I think that’s there’s a really subtle but the the emotional through line of of for these two characters is is are are we nice guys? Are we good people?
Emily (22:43.979)
Yeah.
Emily (22:54.411)
Yeah.
larry (23:09.511)
in this world. And I think like and I think, you know, spoilers, it’s called The Nice Guys. You know, that I that I think that’s what I think the story is for them, you know, and and how they come together and help each other. And, you know, I’m sure Shane Black had a desire that this would be a series of movies, but we don’t do we don’t reward good things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. yeah, if this had been Batman and Green Arrow, we would be like twelve D.
Emily (23:09.608)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Emily (23:16.754)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah.
Emily (23:30.678)
No. Certainly not original ideas, intellectual property. Yeah.
Emily (23:39.784)
Exactly.
larry (23:39.947)
and so I think that I think but like that that girl is like she’s a she’s such a fascin like I the more I I watch this movie, the more I realize how important this daughter character is to the story. She’s like the moral compass. But she but she’s able to because she shows up. My one of my my favorite things is so they go to this party. So there’s a party in the Hollywood Hills and
Emily (23:53.037)
She was incredible. Yeah.
larry (24:06.665)
I would love to have been in the in LA in the nineteen seventies. just just like what? What so it’s a party being hosted by a porn producer ’cause they’re trying to find Amelia played by qua thank you. I always I always slaughter her name. and they believe she’s gonna be there. So they go and of course it’s the most decadent LA late seventies party you can imagine. There’s cruels with
Emily (24:10.288)
Right? ‘Cause I’ve never even seen a party like that ever once in my life.
Emily (24:21.469)
Market quality. Yeah.
Emily (24:30.995)
Mm-hmm.
Girls in pools, strippers everywhere, drugs. Yeah. It’s a lot of boob work in this movie.
larry (24:36.206)
Yeah, no tops on, you know, you know a lot of boob work. Earth, wind and fire is there. Earth, Wind and Fire quotation marks, ’cause it’s i it’s it’s not the real Earth, Wind and Fire. It’s actors. Yeah, no, yeah. It’s like having having just yeah, and having just watched the Earth, Wind and Fire documentary. Which is lit, on HBO Max. it was like, yeah, that’s Earth, Wind and Fire.
Emily (24:44.197)
Inexplicably Yes.
Emily (24:50.867)
They’re lip syncing magically though. We’ll give them that. The dubbing phenomenal.
larry (25:06.046)
But like the daughter, she tried to like sneak into the party and Gosling sends her home, but then but then later on Healy finds her back there because she’s she’s doing the detective work. She’s working the angles, and arguably better than her father, and but better than Healy. Like she has found people, but then he catches her Healy Russell Crow catches her in this room watching porn with this other with one of the porn actresses. And she seems non plus by it. So he’s like, You shouldn’t be watching She’s like, Yeah.
Emily (25:12.339)
She comes back.
Emily (25:16.329)
Yeah, she’s working the angles. Like it’s great.
Emily (25:22.426)
Yeah, but
Emily (25:31.652)
Exactly. She’s just like, whatever. You know, and they also do a really excellent job of pointing out the fact that like the women who were in these pornography like pornographic movies are five years, six years older than this little girl. Like they do a really good job of pointing out the fact that like all one of my problems with like 70 sleaze as a veneer that a lot of people have been tapping into and a and people like to tap into is that
larry (25:36.457)
You know.
larry (25:47.848)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (26:01.209)
you know, it it it’s hard for me to separate the actual politics of the 1970s with the aesthetics of 70s sleaze And so like the actual politics of the 70s was like women can be like thrown up, you know, balled up and thrown out with the garbage. They, you know, it’s it’s an unstoppable commodity to use, you know, a as, you know, as we see fit.
larry (26:18.046)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily (26:25.604)
Which, you know, i the the cults of the seventies and the porn and the pornographic nature of the LA in the seventies, very, very real. and all of the drugs. And it’s exactly, you know, so it’s a little bit difficult sometimes for me to see people use the 70s sleaze as like a mechanism, w you know, the historical aspect of it and separate it from what I actually know about the, you know, the horribleness of living through the seventies.
larry (26:31.08)
Yeah, yeah. The the yeah. Yeah. And and all the and all the drugs, you know, that were we used to lubricate.
larry (26:48.478)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Emily (26:54.906)
But this movie does a really good job of you know of not telling you bald faces like these are bad people, let’s let’s not condone them, but it’s like these are young women who are being chewed up and spat out, you know, at an alarming rate. And
larry (27:04.564)
Yeah, yeah.
larry (27:11.53)
They’re be they’re being they’re being used f temporarily and then yes. Yeah, agreed.
Emily (27:16.268)
Yeah. And and I think that again, having Russell Crowe, who’s what, maybe in his late 40s, 50s in this movie, and Ryan Gosling, who’s also an adult, you know, in this, and seeing a little girl being put into the miasma of it, it really kind of drives home for them, like you were saying, like, what am I participating in? What am I a cog of? What am I a mechanism in?
larry (27:24.562)
Yeah Yeah, yeah yeah.
Emily (27:41.635)
Because they both have such parental affection towards this this 13-year-old girl without patronizing her and just being like, Your hair should be in braids and you should be at home playing with dollies, you know, without being, you know.
larry (27:44.895)
Yes.
larry (27:49.172)
Yo yeah.
larry (27:53.983)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. They just they merely say this is not right for you. You should not be watching this. They don’t they yeah, they don’t and I don’t think that that character, the the daughter, would be able to I don’t think she would be you could tell her what to to do. She you know, she is she is in some ways a little adult. but like but there but there’s still like what’s appropriate and what’s not appropriate. It’s appropriate for her to drive her father home from the bar.
Emily (27:59.908)
Yeah.
Emily (28:13.924)
Yeah.
Emily (28:18.754)
Yeah.
larry (28:21.866)
But it’s not appropriate I did love that. but it is not appropriate, obviously, for her to be in a house filled with drugs and pornography. so they have boundaries.
Emily (28:22.455)
I did love that.
Emily (28:30.455)
Yeah. Like at some point Russell Crowe catches her. She’s sitting in the empty lot where her house used to stand, and she’s like reading a a book, you know, like a a kind of a children’s romance novel. And he looks at her and goes, Are you playing house? And the look of disdain that she gives him, which is like, I’m a 13-year-old girl who was born and bred in Los Angeles. Like playing house stopped when I was six. Like, what are you talking about? But she doesn’t tell him the truth.
larry (28:38.388)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
larry (28:56.466)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Emily (28:58.945)
Which is, you know, this is where my mother died in a hor in a horrific house fire. And she has that wonderful sort of aged quality that 13-year-old girls can have when they’ve seen some shit. You know, we talk all the time as a culture of like, you know, like little girls being a little bit further ahead than than teenage boys. And she’s a very clear example of that. But also her
larry (29:02.152)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
larry (29:10.897)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
larry (29:20.19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Emily (29:25.677)
Girlfriends who are at her birthday party or at sleeping over at her house are also dumb little kids because they are probably kids from privilege or, you know, who have been better protected by far better parents than the ones that she got.
larry (29:28.296)
Mm-hmm.
larry (29:39.186)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well but but arguably like like for the situation that they’re in, that gosling was a better parent for the situation, like when when John Boy comes to the house, his daughter’s prepares the other daughter who messes it all up and she gets tossed through the window. She does not die. She gets tossed through a window. And like so i it’s it is that that
Emily (29:52.193)
Right.
Emily (29:59.202)
Yeah, exactly.
larry (30:07.358)
The daughter’s gone through some shit. She’s on the other side of it and she’s still having I mean, it’s it’s treated as a as like comedy that she’s driving her father, you know. But like, I feel like she is in the context of the film, you know, she’s she is not necessarily healed, she’s still recovering from grief, but she is there helping her father because he’s still kind of a mess. He’s a functioning mess. and it’s definitely treated
Emily (30:31.98)
Yeah.
larry (30:34.725)
as as jokes, but he’s beginning, I think, to question where he is in his life. And she and she’s kind of on the other side offering her hand, like, I will help you, I will drive you home from the bar, so you don’t drive yourself home from the bar. You know, I will help solve the the mystery. And she does she does to a degree help. You know, and so it’s it’s almost a partnership of three that’s in it, both for the for the mystery and also for the healing of these two guys.
Emily (30:42.119)
Yeah.
Emily (31:03.742)
Yeah.
larry (31:04.047)
you know, of the moving on.
Emily (31:07.32)
You know, I think this I have to honestly say that. I think this is some of Ryan Gosling’s best work. I think he is absolutely phenomenal in this movie. And he plays there’s no other way to phrase it. He plays a dumbass really, really, really well. And it’s not a malicious stupid. It’s it’s he he kind of walks into everything. He again, this is him playing this very well. He walks into situations.
larry (31:13.608)
I think so.
larry (31:24.103)
Yeah, yeah.
Emily (31:36.67)
With a naivete that is admirable in a forty something year old man.
larry (31:39.133)
Yeah.
larry (31:42.94)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He d I I absolutely agree. He he he’s not necessarily a great detective, but he’s a and and I and I love this aspect and I write to it, I think, that he is just not a quitter. You know what I mean? Like he’s not necessarily like, you know, he’s not Sherlock Holmes, he’s figured it out, he’s five steps ahead. He’s kind of like, huh, bumbles literally falls onto, you know, clues. you know, and
Emily (31:57.126)
Yeah.
larry (32:11.23)
But he pieces things together eventually, but it’s more from like repeatedly running into things. And I think I think you’re right. I think this is one of his better performances, if if not personally one of his best performances, because like he’s able and I and I also like I think Shane Black does an excellent job of of mixing humor and thrills and and real emotional depth with things.
Emily (32:18.386)
Yeah.
Emily (32:24.177)
Agreed.
larry (32:41.113)
so I think you have like there’s a scene where like earlier it’s just the humor aspect of it. There’s a scene very early on. Now we had mentioned at the beginning Ryan Russell Crowe goes over to Ryan Gosling’s house because he’s Gosling’s looking for his girl named Amelia, and Amelia has hired Crow to make him stop. So he goes and he breaks Ryan Gosling’s arm and he lets out the bet like one, one there’s an aspect is like, who hired you?
Emily (32:47.411)
Yeah.
Emily (33:03.8)
So funny.
larry (33:09.285)
And Gosling immediately gives up a name and Crow’s like, What? You just gave up a name? What kind of what is what’s wrong? He’s like, But he ever so but he Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don’t care. And then but then he k keeps trying to fight off Russell Crow. You know, so there’s still some kind of Bugs Bunny not Bugs Bunny, but more like Sylvester, the cat, aspect of like, I’m gonna keep getting up. And so eventually Crow breaks breaks his arm and Ryan Gosling gives out a
Emily (33:12.987)
Yes. Yeah. He’s like, no one’s paying me enough to protect them. I don’t care.
Emily (33:31.045)
Yes.
Emily (33:38.407)
Little high pitched screen.
larry (33:39.305)
The most the most high pitched like eight year old girls scream and it is so delightfully funny. So then but then I I just wanna s take a side road real quick. So there there so there’s that scene where Gosling gives up the name quickly and Russell goes, What’s wrong with you? Then then like a scene or two later, Russell Crowe is c is confronted in his apartment by two by the two guys asking him to give up Amelia and he’s like, Fuck you and then they you know, they fight.
Emily (33:55.365)
No.
larry (34:07.774)
So it’s like we get to see like how Crow would handle the same exact situation. And I and I find that so as a writer so delightful. but anyway, so now Crow is pissed that people have come after him and fucked up with his fish tank. And so well, he’s like Yeah. Yeah, this is so unprofessional. Like that he’s got a code of conduct. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (34:11.961)
Exact yeah.
Emily (34:23.553)
Yeah, he’s so concerned for the dead fish. It’s actually such another wonderful piece of character work where he’s like, Why are you bringing the fish into this? Like, come on. Kill me, but not the fish.
larry (34:36.615)
I love that. And and like, so he he’s gonna now hire Gosling. So he’s confronting in that bowling alley bathroom. And like that whole thing with the door, like so Gosling’s in the bathroom, and he’s smoking a reading a magazine in the in as he’s taking a poo. and so like the door opens, but he’s got a gun, and the door closes, opens, closes, drops cigarette, like all of this great, well-timed action with the door and the cigarette. And it’s so funny and it’s so slapsticky, and it’s
Emily (34:45.724)
my god, it’s so funny.
Emily (34:50.587)
Ha ha ha.
larry (35:04.015)
Okay for this movie. Like this movie can stretch and not just be like I recently watched The Fugitive and it’s obviously it’s a great thriller, but it’s it’s tone like there there is I mean I guess there’s some there’s one tone, I guess Tommy Lee Jones has some barbs towards his employees, which you could send right to HR. But like, you know, but it is one tone and it’s and it’s good. It’s a gr and it’s a great movie. I don’t mean to disparage it, but I haven’t watched it in
Emily (35:14.629)
Yeah.
Emily (35:18.159)
One tone.
Emily (35:25.775)
Yeah.
larry (35:33.993)
20 some years. And I’m like, I don’t know if I need to rewatch it again in 20 some years. But with the nice guys, I’ve, you know, since 2016 seen it four or five times because like I get to have so many different emotions. I get to laugh. I get to like kind of cry. I I don’t cry. I don’t cry. I’m a man. But you know, I get to I get to have my, you know, I we get to have so many things. And I think part of that’s Russell Ryan Gosling’s performance is that he has these comic moments.
Emily (35:37.986)
Yeah.
Emily (35:51.117)
Yeah. No. No.
larry (36:03.845)
he totally riffs on Costello at one point. The when he when he finds the body that’s like it’s kind of Costello. it’s kind of Lou Costello. But I’ll for I’ll forgive him. But like he has the but then he gets to have these other emotional moments and I really and I really appre like this feels like a whole human of a movie where like the fugitive feels like feel it feels it feels like iconic Harrison Ford movie.
Emily (36:07.363)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Emily (36:20.877)
Yeah.
Emily (36:28.856)
Yeah.
larry (36:31.785)
And you know, not not not to dispare Harrison Ford, I think he actually is a really great actor, but like it is it is a an aspirational. We w all want to be how Richard Kimball is, but we are actually Ryan Gosling. You know.
Emily (36:32.215)
Yeah.
Emily (36:42.317)
Right.
You know, i it’s w Harrison Ford has again love is work, but it’s often very much aspirational masculinity of like he is put into a situation, especially in the early nineties, where a lesser man would be undone by it. So you have, you know, the fugitive, you have all the clear and present danger, which is phenomenal, Air Force One, which was like huge, where he’s just like
larry (36:49.737)
Mm-hmm.
larry (36:53.769)
Mm-hmm.
larry (37:01.608)
Yeah, yeah.
larry (37:05.803)
clear and present danger. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Emily (37:11.281)
I’m uniquely the president who can single-handedly take down terrorists. Whereas exactly, and I mean like we eat it up with a spoon because we love competency. You know, it’s the reason why the pit is so phenomenal is because like we want to see competent people, you know, take control of a situation. And again, really, really great in the late 80s and early 90s, where you had, you know.
larry (37:12.745)
Yeah. Get off my plane. Yeah.
larry (37:21.521)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily (37:33.557)
the pol the politics of the late 80s and early nineties and again in the early 2000s where we were like, we really, really, really need to see competency on screen. And I don’t want to default that, but I love the there’s no emotional vulnerability in competency. You know, it’s or very little. You have to do it very delicately, which I think again, they’re doing really well on the pit, but there’s not a whole lot of emotional, you know, vulnerability there.
larry (37:49.445)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well
larry (37:58.343)
Yeah. Well, I mean that’s w that’s why I think, you know, stu now that we’re not talking about the nice guys. but but to just mention Die Hard. I think that’s one of the reasons why Die Hard is such a successful and ongoingly successful movie is because he is uniquely unqualified, but he just kind of keeps going. And there is an emotional available vulnerability to he loves his damn wife, you know, and and so like
Emily (38:09.451)
Yeah Yes.
Emily (38:19.816)
Right. Cause that man loves his damn wife. That man loves his wife.
larry (38:28.612)
You know, so I think that’s what made that particular movie and and to kind of bring it to Shane Black, you know, the first lethal weapon movie, you know, like there you know, the the Mel Gibson character had a lot of PTSD and like and you know, so I think there are those examples and I but I think this is a I think this pairs really well the nice guys to bring it back. It pairs really well with the story and and that kind of human
Emily (38:34.933)
Absolutely.
larry (38:58.564)
incompetency in the face of a larger force. What one of my favorite lines of of the movie, and I and I think this speaks to Gosling’s character of like his methodology, is when he spoilers, falls off a hotel building, a hotel and falls into the pool, and he’s like, I don’t think I can die. I think I’m invulnerable. And I th and I think there’s an aspect of that in the character. Like I think that’s kind of how he’s functioned in the world. Like, you know
Emily (39:01.749)
Mm-hmm.
Emily (39:18.133)
Yeah.
larry (39:28.162)
He hasn’t managed to drink himself to death. He hasn’t gotten, you know, shot. He I mean he did he did accidentally slice his hand open and he did get his arm broken. But like that was really fun. Yeah, so early on in the movie he’s try as he’s trying trying to track down Amelia, he’s trying to break into a bar to get their credit card receipts, but he like he pushes in the glass, slices in the bad way, and he’s like, that’s blood. And there’s there’s this this again, because of the the perfection of the performance, there’s this like ho ho.
Emily (39:37.491)
That was fing hilarious.
Emily (39:46.901)
Slices his wrist the bad way.
larry (39:57.288)
From Ryan Gosling. It’s like am I gonna pass out or throw up from my own wound? You know.
Emily (40:01.223)
Yeah. The and when they find the dead body after he falls down the hill, you know, the Hollywood Hills apartment like thing. He doesn’t have a sense of smell. And so which is like, you know that that was kinda added in after the fact, after like too many things kinda happen and Shane Black had to like, fuck, how do I like make sure like he doesn’t immediately notice that he’s sitting next to a dead body? I feel like he probably threaded in the no sense of smell like really, really well after the fact. It’s brilliant.
larry (40:05.852)
Yeah.
larry (40:10.077)
Yes, yes.
larry (40:22.203)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe. But it works re it works well because like it’s bur because it also explains why he didn’t know the gas leak for the for the fire, the burn out of the house. Like and and also it’s just it’s also just a really funny detail of a detective with n with one of the senses. Like how many times have we watched Sherlock Holmes or some, you know, iteration of Sherlock Holmes smell something? And like, this this was clearly sand from you know you know
Emily (40:32.687)
Exactly.
Emily (40:40.754)
Yes.
Emily (40:45.895)
Yeah.
Emily (40:49.455)
Acknowledging that there’s physical repercussions for getting whacked in the head and like going through the violence that these guys go through. But my favorite part of that is that when like Russell Crowe stumbles down the hill and he finds the dead body, he’s like, first we’re gonna throw up and then we’re gonna get rid of the body. And it’s like, yes, you’re gonna barf because it reeks and there’s a dead man there. Like
larry (40:54.12)
Yeah.
larry (41:03.856)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We could have Yeah. And then and then I love that they hurl hurl they did they pick up the body and they push it up over a fence, but they didn’t bother to look what was on the other side of the fence. So then the body and it cuts cuts is this like passes through the frame and lands on a table. A wedding reception. It’s like and then you just watch them run.
Emily (41:18.931)
Yeah.
Emily (41:27.669)
Yes. I it’s you know, th that detail I feel like was kind of mirrored in Barry like an episode of Barry. Barry goes and he kills some guy and like in like I think he’s like Boyle Heights or something like that, and he’s killing this guy on one side of a fence, and on the other side of the fence there’s like white girls having a party outside, and you’re just like, Yeah, that is one of the wonderful
larry (41:40.912)
Mm.
larry (41:53.352)
That’s right. Yeah, yeah.
Emily (41:56.421)
Dichotomies of of LA is just like the the the gentrification and the poverty just being like that close to one another is an absolutely wonderful detail.
larry (42:02.813)
Yeah, everything yeah, everything is i Yeah. And then like if you’re in the Hollywood Hills, you’re just stacked on top of people. Like, yeah. Yeah. So it’s so it’s it’s just like this great humanity of the characters that I really you know and even and even to the degree I mean the only villain that we really well, I guess two. We kinda get the humanity of two villains, the the Keith David muscle guy and god, I almost said Kathleen Turner. my god, Kim Basinger.
Emily (42:09.477)
Yeah, yeah.
Emily (42:27.578)
Yeah.
Emily (42:31.821)
Kim Basinger.
larry (42:32.904)
Kim Basinger. Kim Basinger is the other villain. It’s the same type. Both but let’s be honest. Both of them would kill me if I confuse the two. and I don’t want to disrespect either one. Kim Basinger who who plays like the she’s a member of the Department of Justice. And so spoilers. I I can never tell the rule of spoilers with this. But if you haven’t seen the movie, why are you listening to this podcast? yeah. Come back, come back.
Emily (42:35.609)
Listen, it’s the same type for a certain you know, there’s some sort of overlap in the type.
Emily (42:43.835)
That’s very true, yeah.
Emily (42:58.383)
Yeah, hit pause, go watch it, come back, you’re good.
larry (43:03.048)
but so she’s obviously she’s one of the people behind behind it all. And I think like she kind you know, as I’m thinking about it now, she kind of reminds me of the Jack Nicholson character from god. Am I getting old? I’m like Top Gun, Top Gun. It’s not Top Gun. The Tom Cruise movie with the with the You you you need me on that line. Why why this is why we’re not doing
Emily (43:20.825)
Yeah.
Emily (43:27.689)
no Thank you. Yep.
larry (43:31.912)
law and order movies. my god, Few Good Men. Thank you. Thank you. thank you, mysterious Neuron. so it she kind of reminds me of of the character of Jack Nicholson character from A Few Good Men, where ’cause she’s like, I’m doing all of these terrible things because it needs to be done because the auto industry is America. If they go under, America goes under. So this this
Emily (43:41.177)
Ha ha.
larry (43:59.782)
This the desire for doing it for a greater good. She’s doing it for a greater good. She’s doing terrible things. Even to her own daughter, she’s doing for a greater good. And so it’s like this weird selfless act. I mean it’s it’s monstrous. Let’s not let’s not fool at ourselves. But it is monstrous. And she does go down. And she she will be the one going down, not the auto industry. And so it’s just like and then like my favorite moment.
Emily (44:07.785)
n yeah.
larry (44:27.279)
in the movie one of my favorite moments in the movie, because I have so many favorite moments. it’s a great movie. is there’s that fight scene between Keith David and Russell Crowe. And it’s fun watching these two kind of two older dudes try just muscle it out on each other. And and and and Crow Crow they’re not Hollywood fit. They’re they are they are they are over forty five and barrel chested fit. Like that’s what that’s like you know
Emily (44:30.403)
Yeah, it’s a great movie.
Emily (44:39.917)
Exactly. Yeah. Like they’re fit, but they’re not Hollywood fit.
Emily (44:54.474)
Yes.
larry (44:57.067)
You the they’re sliding towards their knees are broken. but like so Crow has has Keith David, he’s badly beaten, he’s shot in the leg, and Crow’s like, I don’t ever want to see you again the g and the guy’s like, I will be in Kansas And you’re and you’re and you’re like I’m leaving I don’t I I am so tired of this bullshit, I’m leaving. But of course but then he doesn’t. He shows up again, I’m like, dude, you had your chance And then and then and then he does not survive the haul fall from the hotel roof.
Emily (45:11.478)
He was like, I’m leaving. I have no problem with that.
Emily (45:18.976)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Could have just gotten on the plane. Didn’t.
No. Excellent splat. That is a that was a really good splat.
larry (45:26.527)
actually splat It was a great splat. you know, so it’s it’s but I do want to point out and y and you might be too young to remember this, do you do but T V’s Buck Rogers is also in the movie.
Emily (45:43.542)
He is yes I know who of whom you speak, but
larry (45:45.553)
But see, this is how I know you’re not old enough to remember the show because you’d be like you’re like, mm, Joe Gilgerard. That guy from Sidekick, that movie, that T V show. Yeah, yeah, but like ’cause I’m I’m a a man of a certain age. So the Buck Rogers in the twenty fifth century, the T V show is like burned deeply into my three or four year old mind. So it’s like, yeah, there’s there’s Buck Rogers. Old man Buck Rogers who’s I guess the the top villain.
Emily (45:52.918)
Yeah.
Emily (46:13.573)
the chief chief villain. I ’cause it
larry (46:15.068)
He’s yeah, but he’s he got he has not he has nothing to do Buck Rogers fans, so but he’s he’s he He’s there. Yeah.
Emily (46:19.913)
No, he he’s there to be old and and evil. but I love listen, Shane Black is a really good writer because a lesser writer would have not actually made Amelia Kim Kim Basinger’s daughter. It would have been like a lie. You know what I mean? Like, that’s my daughter, that’s why I need to find her, and it turns out she’s just evil and wants to kill this girl. But
larry (46:28.932)
Mm-hmm.
larry (46:38.117)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (46:44.731)
Yes, yeah.
Emily (46:45.544)
Because Shane Black is a very good writer, it is actually her daughter and her, you know, like she is legitimately hiring hitmen to take out her own daughter. And again, another writer could not ever make the crux of a murder mystery and story the introduction of the catalytic converter. This is such like a deeply niche, weird thing to turn into the crux of a conspiracy, you know, and things like that. Like you wouldn’t
larry (47:04.039)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (47:14.954)
wouldn’t believe it if it was from a lesser writer.
larry (47:16.219)
It yeah, and not only is it the catalytic converter, but it’s also mixing with the porn world. You know, because be Yeah. Well what what what I and to to I wanna I because I was w as I was thinking about it when I was watching it the other day, I was thinking I was thinking about the Thin Man. Go check out the Thin Man episode of this podcast. so what’s in what’s interesting about I think
Emily (47:22.718)
Yes. Which i and it does seamlessly, and you’re like, God dang it, like you’re really good at this.
Emily (47:38.664)
Yeah, early on.
larry (47:44.379)
the mystery of nice guys versus the mystery of the thin man just from a structural point of view it’s one one is this has happened and now we’re gonna find out what happened. The mystery is what happened. The with the nice guys it’s not only about what happened but we have to stop it something from happening. So there’s a thriller aspect of it as well. So it’s n it’s not just about we have to figure out why Misty got murdered
Emily (47:55.496)
Yeah.
Emily (48:03.933)
Right.
larry (48:11.994)
or why these other people got murdered, because something is going to happen and the bad guys want to stop that bad thing from happening and hide information, you know, about the Catalytic converter and why they blah blah blah. So the bad guy so it leads to the a con a a a climactic confrontation. It’s a culmination. It’s a climactic, thrilling one where there’s a literal fight where like the thin man ends in a delightful scene, no doubt, in a in a dining room as somebody’s explaining what’s happening.
Emily (48:28.168)
Like the culmination, yeah.
larry (48:42.021)
You know, so it’s a it’s it’s it’s much more you know, that movie it’s much more like Agatha Christie, locked room not locked room mystery, but like we’re we’re now invited to s solve the mystery. Where the other one is and no surprise given Shane Black’s what he writes, you know, we have a thriller component, we have a we have a a clock, this is going to happen at this time. We need to get there or the bad guys will get away with it.
Emily (48:42.182)
Yeah.
Emily (49:06.044)
Yeah.
larry (49:06.191)
And I think so there’s a nice thriller component in the rising raising there’s more stakes rising in in the nice guys than in the thin man mysteries, for example.
Emily (49:16.538)
Yeah. You know, and making and the decision to make it a private investigator film is again very interesting for the fact that nothing cerebral is happening. You know, we we are shown time and time and time again that Ryan Gosling’s character is not the brightest bulb in the strand. You know, someone makes a reference that one of the the
larry (49:23.131)
Mm-hmm.
larry (49:35.441)
Yeah, yeah.
Emily (49:38.874)
Bodyguard guys has his balls cut off and he goes, That’s a Munich and you know, Russell Crowe is like, It’s not a Munich. He doesn’t tell him what the correct word is. He tells him Munich is a city in Germany, you know, because Russell Crowe probably is old enough, the character is old enough to remember like World War Two, you know.
larry (49:43.687)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Germany, yeah, yeah.
larry (49:54.651)
Well and he but he’s also and he’s also doing a word of the day.
Emily (49:58.381)
Yes, which is so cute. And and Russell Crowe has like that I want to be a better person. I want to improve myself. I and Russ and Ryan Gosling has that futility of I will never be better because I let something horrible happen.
larry (50:00.357)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
larry (50:06.938)
Yeah.
larry (50:13.499)
Well it’s it’s it’s the like the very early on in the movie he ha he discover well, I think it’s his first scene in the movie, he discovers he has written on his hand, you will not be happy. Or you will never be happy. I think it’s you know, never be happy happy. Yeah. And then over the course of the mov at the very end of the movie, after yet another bathing, we have mirrors, which I love in storytelling, the the never is wiped off, but the other words remain, you will be happy.
Emily (50:24.227)
Yeah. You will never be happy.
Emily (50:40.259)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (50:41.146)
Which I f which I find which I find just utterly delightful. ‘Cause you you kind of you he again, because he he’s a good actor, he’s the better of the Canadian Ryan’s. fight me, Ryan Reynolds fans.
Emily (50:53.069)
Yeah. They deserve their purpose, but Ryan Gosling is a better purpose.
larry (50:59.736)
Ye sure. you know, Deadpool, great. yeah, yeah, Deadpool. Anyway, but how how Gosling receives almost this message from the universe on his hand is just it you f you feel that moment of like, I can be happy, I can like raise my daughter, do my job, do the right thing, you know. there’s there’s some
Emily (51:17.828)
Yeah.
Emily (51:22.594)
He also has wonderful moments where he’s trying to improve his daughter, which which I really love so much. Where like you know, where my favorite thing is like she’s like, There were whores there and stuff, and he’s just like, Don’t say and stuff, just say there were whores there. You know, and he’s trying
larry (51:26.758)
I know what you want you can talk about.
larry (51:35.834)
No.
Yeah. It stuff makes you look dumb. Yeah.
Emily (51:43.275)
He’s trying to parent her in the only way he knows how, but he also can’t, you know, learn anything for himself. He’s kind of, you know, painted into the corner. And it I don’t have kids, but I imagine that feels like a lot of parenting, where you’re just kind of like, no, he’s showing my bad habits. What am I going to do?
larry (51:52.228)
Right, right.
larry (52:00.409)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean he’s he what I would say is like he’s kind of he’s he is very much his character as a detective is very much kind of almost like Dirk Gentley. Like he’s like feeling his way through things. Like he ’cause one time, you know, he’s like, I’m smart. that’s not a airline number, that’s the apartment building in in Pasadena. Well, it turns out that building is no longer there. It’s like, okay, I guess it is that.
Emily (52:19.905)
Yeah.
Emily (52:29.111)
Yeah.
It hasn’t been for years. Yeah.
larry (52:33.336)
Yeah, but then but then in fact he but then at another point he goes, no no, that’s actually the hotel and of course at that time he’s correct. But so it kinda takes some some time, but he kind of feels his way through, you know, and I think that’s that’s his strength, is that he’s kind of I think he knows what’s right. He’s he is sometimes a coward, you know, because no one wants their arm broken and no one wants to get shot. But that’s what Healy is there for, is to kind of keep him
Emily (52:45.538)
Yeah.
larry (53:01.328)
going. Like they they they’re good yin and yang together, you know? Yeah.
Emily (53:02.217)
Yeah. They really are. And I think also to modernize the private investigator, because oftentimes when you do go back and you read Sherlock Holmes or you read some of like the older ones, they never make a mistake. They always seem to know, you know, Sherlock Holmes, especially, you know, that’s the joy of the character is that he’s literally always right. Whereas, you know, other times you have like Sam Spade or Philip Marlowe, Philip Marlowe will show up at the right place.
larry (53:18.905)
Yeah.
larry (53:22.694)
It’s it’s rare. Yeah, it’s rare he makes a mistake. Yeah.
Emily (53:32.0)
place and then get his ass beat or you know someone like blatantly lies to him and he can’t get the information he wants. And then he finds out later, no, I was right the first time. And Lalong Goodbye is actually a really good example of that. But and it’s nice that Ryan Gosling’s private investigator character makes mistakes, shows up to the wrong place because that’s far more believable as a modern viewer who has now experienced a hundred years of of private investigator fiction.
larry (53:41.222)
Yeah yeah yeah.
larry (53:58.509)
Yeah, and I and I and I think it’s just more entertaining, you know, it that it’s just like, he’s a flawed human being. And I and I think I mean I think there’s a place to go back to what you’re talking about with competency. I think there’s a place for for that, you know. There’s a there’s a place for, you know, watching Arnold Schwarzenegger in Predators, you know, or Predator. And f to him another shame but I almost did that intentionally.
Emily (54:02.676)
Yeah.
Emily (54:19.253)
Yeah.
Speaking of another Shade Black movie.
Emily (54:27.624)
Mm-hmm.
larry (54:28.054)
Mm-hmm. you know, there’s something for that, but then there’s also like the humanity of of a flawed, you know. I mean he’s got numerous flaws, but the flaws don’t end up preventing him. And it doesn’t make him a bad person either. You know, like arguably some of those, you know, the Stallone and Schwarzenegger characters from the 80s and 90s, like, sure they’re competent, but like, would you really want to go to a
Emily (54:43.476)
Yeah.
larry (54:54.8)
Barbecue with that guy. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t think so. I feel I feel like after like ten minutes I’ll be like, screw you, you know? So
Emily (54:57.048)
Emily (55:03.784)
Like that’s what they’re starting to do with Reacher too, where like I’m not sure if you finished the latest season, but Okay. So like he he he big man who hit little man, you know what I mean? Like that that’s the job.
larry (55:06.596)
Hm. I I I haven’t watched any of it. But you can spoil.
Yeah, I ha I ha I have seen I have seen photos of of Alan Richardson. So yes, he is a very, very big man.
Emily (55:24.242)
Man. And that that can get very scary and not just exhausting, but also terrifying at after a certain point of invincible Terminator large man coming after you. You start to wonder, like, if I jaywalk in front of this guy, is he gonna break my neck? Like it’s terrifying, you know.
larry (55:28.57)
Mm-hmm.
larry (55:37.05)
Yeah.
larry (55:41.178)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily (55:44.804)
And they they’ve started to realize that he needs to be humanized a little bit. This last season, there’s a couple images of him with a little fluff, and you’re just kind of like, okay, like big man can hold Big Man can hold little kitty. Okay, great, fantastic. But like, you know, and they start to realize that like Terminator only works if he’s a machine and we know he’s a machine, and then we also gave him a soul and number two, you know, like yeah, it’s a terrifying yes, it’s a terrifying prospect.
larry (55:53.51)
No, he’s gonna kill the cat! It’s gonna snap at his big Uh-huh. All right.
larry (56:09.38)
Yeah. And then and then we had to kill him. Yeah. Then we had to kill that soul. Yeah, yeah. Well that’s why that’s why like when they try to bring after a you know, the Terminator three, four, five, six, all the other ones, where the Schwarzenegger Terminator comes back and has a soul, it’s just like gee, this is this doesn’t work for me. This isn’t Yeah, he’s still killing. Still gross. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I but I wanna I wanna bounce back to your point about like it’s interesting as a detective
Emily (56:14.226)
Ha ha ha.
Emily (56:24.871)
Yeah. Ooh. It is still killing. Like it’s still gross. Still gross. Yeah.
larry (56:39.377)
movie. And I think one of the reasons like why I like detective fiction, because that’s what we’re all here for, right? Right, right, viewers and listeners is what we write. It’s what what what we write and what some of us read. That like I I I can’t some of us read. some of us pretend to read. You know who you are out there. Yeah, yeah. You can buy just buy my books. I don’t care if you read them. Just buy them.
Emily (56:47.642)
Yeah, exactly. That’s what we write. Yeah.
Emily (56:55.702)
Some of us read.
Emily (57:03.962)
you collect them, I don’t care.
Emily (57:08.988)
Prop up a shelf. I don’t care.
larry (57:09.402)
We don’t want readers, we just want buyers.
larry (57:21.687)
What well, there we go. that’s how much we care. yeah. And you know what? I don’t want you to read, I want you to buy two copies. one for yourself to not read and one for your best friend to not read.
Emily (57:31.138)
Exactly.
Emily (57:39.324)
Scare is like running down my face.
larry (57:41.189)
I’m t I’m desperately trying to hold on to the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to bring up when you decided to insult your listeners about them not reading. Good job, Emily. Now I gotta have to start my own podcast. You can all come with me to my podcast. and there’ll be a quiz afterwards. Yeah. And you have to pass the reading quiz before you can listen to the podcast.
Emily (57:52.588)
Yeah.
Emily (57:58.14)
Erudite readers with Laurence. For the ba urbane amongst us.
larry (58:10.986)
No audiobooks don’t count. No. audiobooks count. the point I was trying to make, and I can’t remember it was in a I think it was in a biography of Chandler. because yes, I read biographies. so I so I don’t read mysteries, I read biographies. No, I I Where’s my teacup? I think it was in a biography of of Chandler, or maybe it was about because I have another book about
Emily (58:24.27)
Mm mm.
Emily (58:28.452)
Thanky’s out over here.
larry (58:38.935)
Mysteries, liter a a literacy literary criticism book about mysteries. Both pinkies out. Anyway, and they’re kind of talking about how I think Chandler kind of viewed certainly Marlowe, but the detective as the last knight, the last right good person in a in a corrupt world. So if we look at it that way, like of course it’s a detective movie, because these are the two last people who are going to do the right thing in a corrupt.
Emily (58:53.87)
Yeah.
larry (59:07.781)
world. So it has to be a mystery because they are literally the knights that will save us. Even though because it’s also a mystery it’s slightly noirish. The end doesn’t quite well, but there’s they’re still sad drinking in bark, but they’ve they’re opening up a shop. The the D Kim Basinger goes to jail. And then ultimately because we live in a world with the catalytic verter converter, the catalytic converter did happen. So so in so in some ways they won
Emily (59:19.842)
They’re still sad and drinking in a bar.
Emily (59:33.433)
Yeah.
larry (59:37.071)
They didn’t win everything they wanted, but they were able to slay the dragon of the Detroit auto industry and and transform the world. So they’re they’re they’re the superheroes.
Emily (59:48.727)
Indeed, like they’re living by a chivalric code of, you know, they try to help the maiden in in, you know, distress. They were trying to help Amelia the entire time, who, you know, sorry, my cat’s literally about to call onto my camera. Plump orange cat. They’re trying to live by a chivalric code, you know. It’s just that
larry (59:54.02)
Yeah.
larry (59:58.253)
Mm-hmm.
larry (01:00:04.586)
I thought I thought my cat was about to hurl. Ha ha Edit that sound out. Yeah. we got three pinkies out now. Shavar Shavar code. You cannot point fingers at me.
Emily (01:00:18.935)
Thrink pinkies. I’ve been reading a biography of King Edward III for the last couple of weeks. But it it’s absolutely brilliant the way that you know this sort of especially because your average flyover state person, not to denigrate, but like the idea of Los Angeles as a like a den of iniquity is very real, especially in the 1970s, you know, like
larry (01:00:42.149)
I mean yeah, yeah.
Emily (01:00:47.403)
the it’s the idea of that is where the porn industry is headquartered still is. you know, it’s like I’m sorry. One of the first times I ever drove my dad through Los Angeles. I was driving down 101 past down Barham Boulevard and he looks over and he sees the vivid building over and he goes, vivid pictures? That sounds like they make nudie pictures. And I was like, that’s exactly what they do.
larry (01:00:51.759)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I
larry (01:01:10.533)
Okay. Because that could have turned ugly. It’s like vivid pictures. I love a vivid picture. Yeah. I love that I l I love that he used the word nudie. that’s so cute.
Emily (01:01:15.35)
Exactly. No, he was a man of the world, but like he was like, sounds like they make nudie pictures. And I was like, that’s exactly what they do, Dad. Like they’re headquartered right there. It’s very expensive real estate. Yeah. It’s so quaint. but like it still is the headquarters of the porn industry. And like, you know, the LA is very much concerned, like, like people don’t necessarily want to touch it unless you
larry (01:01:32.549)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:01:44.542)
really point out the fact that it is no, no, no, no, not any longer. Well nouns, Emily, nouns.
larry (01:01:46.277)
We’re not talking about porn, right? Okay. I was like, what are we not touching, Emily? What are we not touching? Should I not touch it?
Emily (01:01:58.579)
the culture of Los Angeles because they which is, you know, 35% porn, but like, they don’t want to talk about it because they think LA is like seedy and bad people live there.
larry (01:02:00.067)
Okay, right.
larry (01:02:04.965)
I I I like your thirty five percent porn, ’cause that means like one in three people are in the porn industry in Los Angeles. Which may be true. Which may be true. I don’t know.
Emily (01:02:15.093)
Listen, do you know how many w when I moved here for my last semester of college, I’m not kidding you, everybody I knew took PA jobs like on porn sets where they were just like the guy holding the boom because it paid really well. And so like most people I know have done at least one pornography not in, but have participated in the set of pornographic features.
larry (01:02:27.512)
Ha ha
larry (01:02:35.81)
Yeah. But worked on, yeah, yeah.
I’ve I’ve known some people who’ve rented or one person who like used to rent their house out for porn. Like, yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:02:44.977)
yeah. My other guest, David Avellone, has many stories about having like been the boom operator on on certain scandalous films.
larry (01:02:49.22)
Check out that episode of Silver Sleeve Sleuths. Yeah. yeah yeah. No, I mean it it I mean I think I mean every big city is complicated in its own way. Is that the Tolstoy quote of like every happy family’s happy in the same way but every unhappy family’s unhappy in a different way? Yeah, yeah. So I th I and I think that’s kind of true for big cities. Every you know that every big city that’s happy is happy in the same way. No.
Emily (01:03:08.272)
Yeah, I think yeah.
larry (01:03:17.896)
Big cities are complicated. And and and I think, you know, the larger your city the the more complicated it is. New York’s complicated in one way. LA is complicated in a different way. But I think ’cause LA has like its its geography is is broad. and you know, it’s its cultures are complex and different. It’s every c it’s every culture on earth and like
Emily (01:03:19.346)
Yeah.
Emily (01:03:35.258)
Mm-hmm.
Emily (01:03:41.22)
It’s every culture on earth, yeah.
larry (01:03:46.116)
I mean you can find every kind of bar. Like it’s not hard to find like an Irish bar, a Senegalese bar. Like it’s not hard. Yeah, yeah.
Emily (01:03:52.39)
Love at the end where they’re in a Mexican restaurant and they order scotch.
Emily (01:03:58.898)
So that guy.
larry (01:03:59.396)
Scotch, still that guy. I’m just gonna read And the and and that’s and it’s right across it’s gotta be a real yeah, it’s gotta be a r I haven’t been over there in a long time. Is that restaurant?
Emily (01:04:06.022)
the comedy store. No. It wasn’t it wasn’t Cabo Cantina, because that’s next to the comedy store. That’s I used to work off the strip, so I’m like trying to but that was a long time ago and I’m trying to remember like what’s still there.
larry (01:04:15.886)
But it okay.
larry (01:04:20.783)
I’m trying ’cause I it’s been so long since I’ve been on that part of the street that
Emily (01:04:26.202)
The book that I’m shopping around now literally takes place on the strip, so I’m trying to remember like her office is on the strip and I’m trying to remember like what is where and why, but I can’t remember what’s on that corner.
larry (01:04:30.544)
okay.
larry (01:04:35.684)
‘Ca yeah, ’cause I ’cause it ’cause it ’cause I’m just trying to decide if that was a re if that’s a real restaurant they shot at or they just dressed it up. ‘Cause it
Emily (01:04:42.809)
I feel like it must have been, but it w I you know what it was? I think do you remember there was a huge man like water main break recently in on the strip and I think it was that corner and so I think maybe they dressed up a different restaurant as as a Mexican restaurant ’cause that’s been a coffee shop for a really long time.
larry (01:04:51.692)
Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (01:04:58.863)
maybe. Okay, maybe, maybe.
Emily (01:05:03.962)
I’m not cutting this for the record. Everybody’s gonna get us going what street is this?
larry (01:05:05.828)
Where where is that? Like ’cause you know what? ‘Cause quite frankly, it is the most LA of conversations. Like, what is it on that corner? Is that thing still there? Well, when I was here five years ago, it was that. Like, that is the most and I don’t like when I lived in New York, we never had conversations about like what was on what street corner. Like it was never you never dis I mean, maybe you might discuss like, yeah, I took the seven to get here. But like
Emily (01:05:16.324)
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
larry (01:05:36.28)
You would never discuss routes. Like like the Californian sketch is absolutely true. Like it is yeah. So go check out the Californian sketches on YouTube.
Emily (01:05:40.483)
it’s so accurate. Yeah. Yeah.
No, but you know, it is difficult to capture Los Angeles in a movie. And I feel like this movie does it phenomenally well. I feel like Big Lebowski does it really, really well. and I’m trying to think, like, and again, like Quentin Tarantino movies that are set here do it really, really well. But LA, you know, at the top of the hour, you’re talking about like why L na LA noir is so interesting. And you brought up no exit. And to me,
larry (01:05:52.985)
Yeah.
larry (01:05:56.908)
Yeah.
larry (01:06:00.397)
Yes.
larry (01:06:04.398)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:06:14.22)
Mm.
Emily (01:06:15.247)
L LA is quintessentially a place you can’t escape because it is just so big. It is just, it takes hours to leave LA County. And then when you’re in the next one, it still feels kinda like LA County because it just is so pervasive. And I feel like this movie captures that so incredibly well because at the end of it, Ryan Gosling is not going, I have to take my 13-year-old girl out of like this.
larry (01:06:19.724)
Yeah.
larry (01:06:25.294)
yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:06:40.48)
you know, sinful place where she’s been exposed to all this stuff. He’s just like, No, now I’m setting up shop with this guy who’s my friend and my daughter’s sitting outside waiting for like this to kind of wrap up. And it’s lovely.
larry (01:06:41.122)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:06:46.466)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:06:51.308)
Yeah. And in in and in yeah, and in fact I am moving I am healed, I am moving on. I’m I’m working with, you know, this man now and life life is good, you know. And like so so yeah, it’s it it is there is a quality of LA and and and y you know, even in like you know, like To Live and Die in LA, you know, which is a obviously much more dramatic film, like there’s a there’s a quality of there’s a cyclical nature of
Emily (01:07:04.109)
Yeah.
larry (01:07:20.918)
of that movie, because the main character dies. Like spoilers, dies like three quarters of the way through the movie. Like he like I rem watching that movie the first time, I was like, what? And then like then he and then his sidekick steps up and his sidekick in a way kind of becomes him again. So we have like this kind of circular like and I don’t know there’s a knight to replace you. And and and I don’t know if like the circular nature of
Emily (01:07:33.836)
What? Excuse me? Like
Emily (01:07:42.872)
There’s a knight to replace you in the in the chavalric journey.
larry (01:07:50.44)
LA noir is because like the city kind of always wins. Like your or your victory is temporary because it will come like the city, the the the violence or the the criminality or the corruption will come back and it’s it’s you know, it’s like the tides or you can’t you can only fight the tides so much. You know, I don’t know.
Emily (01:08:14.104)
Yeah, you know, and we also you again you brought up again Russell Crowe and Kim Basinger in, you know, LA Confidential, which again is an absolutely brilliant LA noir of, you know, at the end you’ve got Ed Exley, played by Guy Pierce, going like, I’m gonna do what I can to break this down and I’m going to stay. And again, because this is taking place in the nineteen thirties in Los Angeles, you know he ain’t gonna win because the LAPD is still the LAPD. And you have
larry (01:08:20.856)
Yeah, like I’m attention. Yeah.
larry (01:08:39.648)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:08:42.974)
you know, Russell Crowe and Kim Basinger being like, Good luck to you, we’re gonna ride off into the sunset because this is not a fight we’re going to win. Yeah. Like
larry (01:08:47.47)
Yeah. I I I almost died. Yeah, yeah, I almost died. She’s potentially still a target. We’re out. Yeah, you know, I’ve I’ve I’ve almost died for this and I I don’t wanna you know and he and and that character he himself the gr he’s a slain knight and like you know he you know, is he Lancelot? Maybe. But like you know and so he’s a slain knight, he’s healed because he has a lot of
Emily (01:09:01.045)
Yeah.
He’s a slain knight in in
Emily (01:09:10.922)
Maybe.
larry (01:09:16.3)
shit going to like he he is a pointed in fact he’s certain points in LA Confidential aimed at the Ed Xley character to destroy Ed Xley’s character but then they do but they’re like what we’re working on the same side actually and and yeah yeah yeah I wear glasses and so so like his trauma is kind of healed more or less if like we want to get all you know printing out four pinkies. Like you know
Emily (01:09:24.864)
Yeah.
Exactly. And I’m Guy Pierce and you can see my teeth boat, so you know I’m not a bad guy.
larry (01:09:45.036)
So he of course he kind of exits the stage but like the Ed Exley character, like he still has he has fights to continue to fight. Now whether or not it’s because he’s still ambitious or not, I don’t know. But like yeah, I think I think they’re they’re interesting movies to put next to each other. And I and I don’t think I would have placed them together without the Russell Crockin Basinger connection. And there’s actually a shot in The Nice Guys, I’m like, is this almost like a little nod?
Emily (01:10:13.255)
Wink.
larry (01:10:14.264)
Wing when she’s in a limo and gosling it and like the when the window comes down, it’s like that almost feels like the same shot at the end of LA Confidential when she’s do she’s talking through the car window and Russell Crowe’s there and and like it actually is talking to them. It almost feels like it’s the same construction of of of the shot. I don’t I’d have to I it’s been a while since I’ve seen LA Confidential. but it but I think, you know, but
Emily (01:10:18.023)
Yeah.
Emily (01:10:22.76)
Yeah.
She’s talking through the car window in the back seat. Yeah.
Emily (01:10:34.707)
Yeah.
Emily (01:10:39.869)
Yeah. Again, another great movie, but you have to hang up the the what’s his nuts what was the god. Yeah, you know, that guy. That one.
larry (01:10:43.479)
Another great movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Kevin. Yeah, Kev. Kev. that one. and so yeah, I I just think there’s just something interesting about I think you can write endlessly about Los Angeles and I because I don’t think any one book or any one movie will ever kind of capture
the experience of Los Angeles, you know, I because I think there’s just so many points of views and I think there’s so many layers of of the movie. yeah, yeah.
Emily (01:11:16.86)
Yeah. And it’s such an older city than people give it credit for. Like there’s there’s so much more history here than people give it credit for. They th you know, the the opinion that LA didn’t spring up until like nineteen fifty is i wildly incorrect. There’s so much happening here before that.
larry (01:11:25.496)
Yeah.
larry (01:11:32.791)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well yeah, I mean ’cause it ’cause I mean like I I was reading this I’m looking at my desk like where’s the book? And the book’s not at the at the desk. So where’s my research? But I reading this book kind of it’s like something about like what’s it called? like the construction of paradise or something like that. But there was like speaking of early corruption, there was a basically a vote was taken in I can’t remember if it’s like turned of the twentieth century or right before, maybe like eighteen eighties or so.
Emily (01:11:39.207)
Where where’s my research?
larry (01:12:02.99)
Basically, like the ca LA County was like, you know what, we need the railroad that’s coming across the country to stop at us, to stop here before it goes down. So like so b yeah, yeah. So basically, like LA count like the city of Los Angeles did a vote and everyone’s like, Yeah, we’ll give a we’ll give a bunch of money to somebody to develop the railroad. Like and like without that railroad, and then like because they were also close to the bay, so they built a railroad down to the bay. And then like, of course, like the shape of LA the city of LA
Emily (01:12:08.345)
Yeah. To stop here. Screw Santa Barbara, they’re coming here.
larry (01:12:31.447)
Is that long like yeah, that little corridor because we’re taking the bay. You know, and so like so that was kind of more the beginning of Los Angeles. And of course, obviously when Hollywood moved out here and it really started to blow up, but then it also really blew up because of like the different industries that were out here, especially aeronautics and stuff like that. You know, so like I mean LA grew, you know, very substantially, very quickly, but it yeah, it was it was well before War
Emily (01:12:31.461)
Yeah, we we’ve got that weird little corridor down to Long Beach. Yeah.
Yeah.
larry (01:13:01.441)
two that it was a big a big city.
Emily (01:13:06.265)
You chose an LA movie because I don’t think we’ve I’ve gotten to do one yet. And I just love, yeah. I’m trying to think. Like, you know, so many in New York, so many in just like nondescript place. You know what I mean? And I just I love it here. And I think it’s still relatively untapped for, you know, for we want more filming to come because that disappeared. And it’s still relatively untapped for even though both you and I write.
larry (01:13:08.227)
Hm.
Really? No.
larry (01:13:18.243)
yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (01:13:28.247)
Yeah, yeah.
Emily (01:13:32.072)
LA based mysteries, I think it’s still relatively untapped for, you know, mystery, you know, machinations. There’s
larry (01:13:40.033)
Yeah, I ’cause mean I I personally believe LA is actually like the home of noir, personally. Like I mean, like I mean, well, arguably I think the movies that were made that we consider noir, whether they were set in New York or San Francisco or whatever, were made here. You know, I mean like you know, I’m thinking of Billy Wilder and and, you know, certainly Maltese Falcon, you know, all of those noir movies, double indemnity.
Emily (01:13:45.601)
Yeah.
Emily (01:13:58.276)
There you go.
Emily (01:14:01.795)
Yeah.
yeah, double indemnity. Like you can’t rent you can’t rent an apartment in the double indemnity building. You have to put your name on a list and you have to like and be like when they call you, if you really want to live there, you gotta take the apartment. It’s crazy. Like, yeah.
larry (01:14:10.615)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:14:16.684)
Yeah. Yeah. So so all of you know, so like what the the the the movies that we think of are noir that started noir were, you know, made here primarily. There’s a few that were made on the streets of New York or whatever, but like they’re made here. So they’re made by LA people. I think, you know, Chandler I think is is I think Chandler’s more fundamental to like the detective thing than than Hammett, than Hammett. Fight me people. Fight me on Hammett and Chandler.
Emily (01:14:41.934)
I agree, yeah.
Ha ha ha.
larry (01:14:46.459)
you know, and then you know Ross McDonald I think is important, but he you he kind it’s his isn’t set quite in LA, it’s just outside of LA in an in an imagined city, but it’s it’s Southern California, you know, so Lou Archer is set in Southern California. So I think I I feel like LA is is noir because I think you have to have I’m gonna sound really fancy now. I think without light you can’t have darkness. And I think and I think the the
Emily (01:14:57.931)
Yeah.
larry (01:15:15.501)
bright light of Los Angeles and Southern California works with the darkness of stuff. And I think, you know, the the fantasy of Los Angeles and Southern California versus like New York always feels real. Everything is real in in New York, you know. But, you know,
Emily (01:15:29.662)
Yeah. Yeah. The fantasy of New York is I’m gonna go and be an industrialist or work in Wall Street and I’m gonna wear a suit and I’m going to go and make tons and tons of money and then I move get a boat. I don’t know. But like yeah, but the fantasy of L is different.
larry (01:15:36.427)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:15:42.231)
Yeah, yeah. Or yeah, and I might be and I yeah, in fantasy of LA I’m gonna ev even if I’m an industrialist, I’m still gonna drive like an obnoxiously bright car, supercar that can’t park anywhere. I’ll have bright suits and I’ll go all of these Hollywood parties and be around celebrities. You know, there’s there’s yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s not a fantasy, kids. Not a fantasy.
Emily (01:16:00.214)
Yeah. It’s fun. The fantasy of fun is I’m gonna get girls and drugs and fast cars. Like that’s yeah.
You can live it.
larry (01:16:09.667)
You can live it. If you can dream it, you can live it. That’s what Tim Curry said to me once. But yeah, no, I I so I I think I think there’s so much about LA and I think there’s a lot of of of stories that can be written and stories that can take place in LA. I think some are stories that can only take place in LA, and I think some that benefit from being taken place in in Los Angeles. and there’s just there is a r remarkable I I I don’t know
I fully agree that LA is noir is untapped, but I think LA history for s noir stories is untapped. I think that
Emily (01:16:47.712)
That’s yeah. I mean obviously we’ve got Chinatown and then everybody went like, We’re done like Yeah.
larry (01:16:51.688)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like there’s you know, i because I’ve never been able to like figure out how I want to use it, I will give this historical example out for free. Like the LA Times building was bombed in the nineteen teens, you know? And yeah, yeah. So I think I think there are these great like historical things. I so I think that history as a source of stories is untapped. and I think
Emily (01:17:04.97)
Yeah. Someone burned down the library too. Yeah.
larry (01:17:20.778)
you know, dear dear listeners who don’t read, but write, who who only buy books so to impress their friends. if if you’re one of them, you know, get a history book and and, you know, write some unknown history of Los Angeles. I think that’s a really I think there’s a lot of substance that I don’t think people consider about history of LA.
Emily (01:17:42.556)
Yeah. Especially if you think about the the immigrant culture and like, you know, the like the f the the hub of Chinatown. I was actually discussing this in a past episode of how Charlie Chan, you know, is you know, i is as how horrifically he’s been portrayed on scre the character has been portrayed on screen. Like we have that wonderful history of immigrant culture and specifically Chinese culture here. It’s one of the oldest you know, Chinese
larry (01:17:47.031)
Mm-hmm.
larry (01:17:53.34)
Mm-hmm. Charlie Chan.
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:18:12.311)
com like expat communities at for all the ways that they got here. And it’s just really, really fascinating politics of how different neighborhoods are formed. And you know, it’s just like if you don’t know, if you’ve never driven through LA, you don’t know how big K-town is, and that there’s a little Bangladesh and that there’s a little Ethiopia. And it’s just like all every single niche community, every single ethnic enclave, every single aspect of the city has a million stories to tell. And it’s just
larry (01:18:28.067)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
larry (01:18:38.944)
Yeah. And then and and it’s not even just the ones that n ex still exist. Like I’m thinking about like Central Avenue, how it used to be like one of the main hubs of jazz in America. You know, and that that’s for a variety of reasons that doesn’t exist anymore, you know. But it was a hu Central Avenue was a huge important part of African American cultures that ex that lived in Los Angeles in the early parts of the history of the city. and you know.
Emily (01:18:48.731)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:19:07.106)
It doesn’t exist in the same way anymore. You know. I you know, but I was thinking as I was thinking about it, it’s like, did you watch the HBO Perry Mason? So that was really good. And like kind of the second season with the Paul Drake character, they get a little bit more into what it was like for an African American in the nineteen twenties to be in Los Angeles. you know, also shot. Yeah.
Emily (01:19:07.751)
Have I seen that in f yeah. Have I seen it in fiction? Can’t say that I have.
Emily (01:19:18.513)
Yes, I did. Ooh, that was really good.
Emily (01:19:26.352)
Yeah.
Emily (01:19:31.534)
Also shot in LA, which you could tell, and an absolutely amazing location scouting for that because there’s there’s a scene where they’re on a railroad and I was looking at the train and I was looking at it and I was like, I know where they actually shot that because it’s up up when you’re going up to Ohio in like the butt crack of northern Los Angeles County just before it hit Ventura County. It’s like I don’t know it’s it’s weird because like it’s it’s you you drive past Magic Mountain, you drive past Six Flags.
larry (01:19:43.434)
Mm.
larry (01:19:48.322)
okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ugh. Everyone loves to live in the butt crack. Yeah.
larry (01:20:00.418)
Yeah.
Emily (01:20:00.825)
And then all of a sudden you’re completely surrounded by like pepper fields and goats. And you’re like, Where where did I go? And you’re still in LA County. You can see like the drop ride from like six flags, like over the hill. And then all of a sudden, you’re literally surrounded by like avocado trees, pepper plants, and people and goats. Like, and you’re just like, This is incredible. And there’s like tons of Victorian houses that were built in the late 1800s. And again, it’s like a complete.
larry (01:20:06.026)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah.
larry (01:20:14.934)
Yeah, yeah.
larry (01:20:19.35)
Mm yeah, o almond farms and all of that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Emily (01:20:28.633)
Backwards in time, sort of moment where you’re like, how does this still exist in a place as modern as LA actually is?
larry (01:20:36.012)
Well, there’s there’s still there’s still some neighborhoods. There’s one not far from me. And all I can say is like it’s by the lows by my house. there’s a neighborhood. It’s one of these limited access neighborhoods, and they have a bunch of Victorian houses still there. It’s like it’s like Crenshaw and Pico. It’s kind of in in that little area. Yeah, there but it’s a limited access. Like you can only drive in to s from certain streets. And like there’s all these old houses, old big houses. You certainly not much older than the thirties.
Emily (01:20:42.531)
Yeah.
Emily (01:20:48.121)
Yeah.
Emily (01:20:53.685)
I know where that yeah.
Emily (01:21:03.461)
Yeah.
larry (01:21:05.782)
they might be a little bit older, but there’s a bunch by my area in my neighborhood that are Victorian era or slightly older. So they still exist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it’s it’s always interesting to kind of bump into to that ’cause LA has the has the the reputation and earned of knocking down history and replacing it with with a McDonalds or a parking lot. Thank you, Johnny Mitchell. and and you know,
Emily (01:21:11.547)
Yeah. And they’re almost always right next to the highway ’cause that yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:21:26.433)
Yeah.
Exactly.
larry (01:21:35.446)
Yeah, I would have loved was it Gardens of Allah? Do you know about that place? Like I would’ve l like I could I I’ve only found a few photos, but like it was it was this kind of hotel, and I literally think that’s where the song comes from. I believe I could be wrong. I’m okay. and so nice of you. I believe I’m wrong, you believe I’m correct. That’s I need to change my headspace. but like it was this like kind of Bohemian hotel and like anything kind of w this is what, nineteen
Emily (01:21:38.624)
Yes!
Emily (01:21:42.552)
I know.
Emily (01:21:49.335)
I believe you’re correct, yeah.
Emily (01:21:55.337)
Ha ha ha.
larry (01:22:03.714)
twenties, thirties. I think it was knocked down in the forties, fifties. Somewhere in there. Yeah. But it was like in Hollywood, the Hollywood area, I think on the strip. It must be on the st on the sunset.
Emily (01:22:05.038)
Mm. I think it was knocked down, yeah, just like around World War Two. Yeah.
Emily (01:22:18.073)
Call where it was, but I think you’re right that it was like it was like where super expensive real estate is now, and like nobody can afford to build, and that’s why they’re also accidentally burning down lots of historical buildings here in Los Angeles. There’s there’s been a spate of arson right lately for like historical buildings because the real estate is just so expensive. And if it’s a protected building, they can’t knock it down. So there’s been a lot of whoops of daisies here that are really hearkening back to the 1970s.
larry (01:22:19.008)
I don’t I think there I think there’s a bank there now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (01:22:30.836)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:22:45.729)
Is it yeah.
Emily (01:22:46.999)
mobster kind of stuff where you’re just like, sure. no, there was an electrical fire in that, you know, historical hotel that nobody wants to pay to rebuilt. Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:22:52.691)
Wink, wink.
larry (01:22:57.279)
Yeah, God. Yeah. W again, another LA conversation. How do what’s what highways do I take to get to those locations, Emma?
Emily (01:23:01.407)
Yeah. Exactly. No, but I was think actually thinking like really quickly of like the house where this is obviously filmed and and set. I really didn’t look it up to see if it’s still existing because there were a lot of mid century homes that unfortunately perished in the Palisades fire, especially, that were very architecturally significant. And I don’t know if this one survived. It’s it’s concrete, like the house where he falls over the side.
larry (01:23:17.206)
Mm.
larry (01:23:22.688)
Hm.
Emily (01:23:28.582)
It and like it’s definitely a hills house, but I don’t know which hills, which is a bit unfortunate. Yeah, the party. Yeah. Yeah, like Hollywood Hills proper.
larry (01:23:28.833)
‘Cause I think ’cause that yeah, that was the the the the the the party? That house? I feel like that’s Hollywood Hills. I don’t know if that That feels very that feels very much Hollywood Hills. I think I think the house that well th I know I’m almost positive the road that Russell Crowe drives up is kind of Baldwin Hills near the Dons. I don’t know if the house that Ryan Gosling’s character lives in is there or not. But it
Emily (01:23:58.014)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:23:58.763)
Feels like it could be, but I don’t know if if that you know.
Emily (01:24:02.858)
I love these conversations. It makes me so happy. Cause like, no, it it’s it’s so wonderful, like to see again, like if anybody ever, no matter where you’re from, if they film in your town, it’s always a big deal. Like my hometown growing up, the the train station was is the train station and strangers on a train. And you’re just kind of like, yeah, like I they’ve never changed it. It still is the same dinky little train station. And you’re just like, Yeah, that’s that’s the Hitchcock Strangers on a train. And no matter what.
larry (01:24:20.577)
larry (01:24:26.143)
Mm-hmm.
Emily (01:24:29.937)
Is filmed in your hometown, it does get you sort of like the magic of the movies. And I love the fact that this movie is it’s very cynical in the way that noirs are, and it can be very, you know, like slap in the face of like the realities of life. But there is still a mat a moment where they walk into these parties and they’re like, the magic of the movies. And it’s just, you know, nudie pictures in this one, but it’s still the magic of the movies.
larry (01:24:34.176)
Yeah.
larry (01:24:49.873)
Yeah. Yeah. The magi It’s a new patient. Yeah. It’s the magic of the movies. What just speaking of like magic of the movies, I have to admit, as a moviegoer, I sort of love like when like the movie starts, like and you hear the like the dum dum dum of like universal pictures and then you see the logo and so I kinda love those moments ’cause I get that little thrill, like, I’m about to watch a movie And I love that in this one they choose the older Warner Brothers
Emily (01:25:18.567)
Yeah, the seventies logos.
larry (01:25:19.387)
logo, the seven the seventies logo. And so we we they’re just so like just the detail work, the craft of of like choosing those kinds of things. And maybe it’s not a big deal to them and you know, but I appreciate that attention to detail of like, we’re gonna we’re gonna really immerse our audience in this.
Emily (01:25:26.045)
Yeah.
Emily (01:25:37.222)
Yeah. And what you just reminded me of was my own feeling that I can’t think of any writer who does voiceover better than Shane Black. His voiceovers, he, you know, this and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang have just absolutely flawless voiceover. And normally I hate voiceover in movies. Normally I’m just like, if you can’t show it to me, why are you telling it to me? And it’s just, you know, it can be very lazy.
larry (01:25:46.933)
Mm.
larry (01:25:58.185)
Mm.
larry (01:26:03.476)
Yeah.
Emily (01:26:06.302)
But Shane Black’s voiceovers are very frequently not giving you information that you need, but they’re setting the tone. And that’s like, thank you. You understand the point of introducing me to a character through a disembodied voice.
larry (01:26:22.09)
Yeah. And I and I think it’s also like because what’s great about a movie is its power of the visual. But because a visual is exterior, it’s harder to really get into the emotional life of a character unless they say it or we see it on on their face. Which obviously a novel in a novel we can zip into z you know, I felt bad, my t my tummy gurgled.
Emily (01:26:34.546)
Mm-hmm.
Emily (01:26:46.404)
Yeah. My tummy hurts. Yeah, exactly.
larry (01:26:48.635)
And my tum my tummy hurts as I was interrogating Hitler. but like so the voiceover also not that these two characters in their early voiceovers are really directly saying how they’re feeling or what what their life is, but because of the tone, because of their speaking to us, we can tap in more easily to where they are emotionally that might not be as clear visually.
You know what I mean? So we g it’s so it’s it’s almost like a direct monologue and so we get to understand where they are. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:27:17.882)
Yeah. It’s like Ryan Gosling’s always gonna look like Ryan Gosling, but if you actually hear the exhaustion in his voice and the and the, you know, the s somberness of his voice and the helplessness in his voice, you know, it makes you go like, that, you know, good looking man actually has feelings.
larry (01:27:29.373)
And yeah. Yeah.
That’s where then you can Yeah. Yeah, because then you can also like cause just if the voiceover is different and the images are the same, we’re gonna create a different meaning to we would have a different meaning to the story. So I I I think I because I’m never like I never poo poo like ’cause I know like when I was working in in screenwriting I was like, never use voiceover, never use voiceover. And I’m kind of I I I I have I have an opinion that I think most reels are dumb.
And you know, they either work or they don’t work. And I think I think most people, if they try voiceover, it doesn’t it just doesn’t work. But I don’t think voiceover it’s the voiceover is not the problem. It’s what the voiceover is saying is the problem. And I think and I think Shane Black does an excellent does really well. He understands the assignment of a voiceover. And I think and I like that it’s two voiceovers. I like that this is a movie with two protagonists, you know, and they kind of start
Emily (01:28:15.255)
Right. Yeah saying.
Emily (01:28:23.577)
Yeah.
Emily (01:28:29.657)
Yeah.
larry (01:28:33.117)
Even actually opposite of each other. And and what’s nice about this movie, they get together very early on to work together, that they’re not for the whole movie working on opposite sides of the case and then they get together at the end of, you know, the second act. Like they’re they very early on become partners. And I really like that.
Emily (01:28:39.008)
Yes, that is really nice.
Emily (01:28:45.155)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I really appreciate I love how we’re like putting all like the substantive stuff about like the actual writing. We’re like, well let’s wrap it up. Let’s get to like talking about the writing. No one’s listening. It’s okay. they’re like, God damn.
larry (01:28:55.584)
At this point no one’s listening. They gave up when they well, we said they didn’t read. That’s when they gave up. They’re like, How dare Emily click.
Emily (01:29:07.267)
But the other thing is is like they’re subscribed to begin with.
larry (01:29:08.154)
Unsubscribe. I just click on this link on Blue Sky. okay.
Emily (01:29:15.097)
Small show. We’re making it smaller. but I like the fact that the rules of writing is that your protagonist just has to change in some capacity. And you normally, you know, you try a lot of times people go for they swing for the fences and they try to make them a wholly different person. And like in this case, the growth is minuscule. The growth is is Ryan Gosling is not drinking one afternoon, or he’s not completely tanked.
larry (01:29:33.214)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Emily (01:29:42.508)
By the time he goes to the bar in the mid afternoon. And that is growth. That is enough. That is all you need to show.
larry (01:29:46.548)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I mean ’cause like the yeah, I don’t think characters I don’t think all stories characters need to change. I think the world could change. I think something needs to change. It doesn’t necessarily need to be the character. It’s great if the character learns something and is changed by that experience. But I don’t think how I mean like how much did you know did he change in in Die Hard? Like did he? I don’t know.
But like the monster gets slain, he you know, his marriage is healed, maybe. You know, and I think like with the nice guys, the monster is slain, but you know, maybe Ryan will drink a little less. I mean, like, that’s enough. I mean like because it’s it’s true, like I don’t think hi I mean his his alcoholism isn’t like the most addressed you know, and it’s treated it’s treated like a joke which
Emily (01:30:30.209)
Yeah. That’s enough.
Emily (01:30:41.101)
No.
larry (01:30:44.564)
Which I’m kinda fascinated by that we could that in even in two thousand sixteen, like and maybe ’cause it was a period piece that his his drinking wasn’t a a dramatic plot point. You know what I mean? Like it was it was it was it was a humorous plot point. And ’cause I’ve always wanted a remake of the Thin Man, but I like, What do you do with the drinking? And and like Yeah. Yeah. So it’s it’s it’s a it’s an interesting aspect of of of the movie.
Emily (01:30:53.651)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s very true.
Emily (01:31:03.637)
Yeah, exactly. What do you do when it’s not set in prohibition times where it’s like a flottation of wealth rather than the yeah.
larry (01:31:14.036)
you know, that w he doesn’t go w you know, and maybe this is a testament I mean, I I do think Shane Black was hoping this would would kick off a series of movies, but
Emily (01:31:21.278)
It it’s such a shame that it wasn’t a series because, like, you know, at some point Russell Crowe asks, like, how do you afford this house? And that’s actually never answered. Like it’s, you know, it’s down the road from the house that he had that burned down. And it’s like, it’s posh real estate. Like it’s a big house and it’s really done really well. And he’s like, it’s a rental, but like, man, you were living in that neighborhood. Like
larry (01:31:25.408)
Yeah.
larry (01:31:30.846)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:31:38.558)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:31:43.614)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:31:44.107)
How would you afford it? Which is the ultimate unspoken question that you have for every person you ever meet in Los Angeles, which is how are you affording this? Yes, exactly. Hot side hustles.
larry (01:31:50.816)
Well we all deal drugs and do porn. That’s how we afford it. but yeah, I I mean I I but I’m not kind of I mean, maybe he he kind of believed it ’cause like Lethal Weapon is is is the bones of Lethal Weapon are similar to the bones of the nice guys. And Lethal Weapon obviously they made a whole bunch of movies. But I think I think it was just if if I had to be a movie exec for a second and say why I don’t think the movie Well, A the movie didn’t make much money.
Emily (01:32:19.731)
It made no money.
larry (01:32:20.447)
it it made no money. So that’s the that’s the first reason why it didn’t go on. So like so that’s the answer. So I can shut up. But I think the reason why it didn’t make lots of money, I think like I think you know what I’m thinking now? If it had come out now as a streaming movie, it might have been wildly successful. You know, but I think in twenty sixteen before
Emily (01:32:24.219)
Exactly. Yeah.
Emily (01:32:41.215)
Yeah.
larry (01:32:44.68)
real really before streaming became a thing. I think it just fought it fell into a gap that the movie industry had already changed and moved away from mid budget movies, you know, and c and comedy and action comedy. So I think it was just the wrong time for that movie. Because I I I I I will always die on the hill that I think this is a really great and I think underappreciated mystery movie. and I I I like
Emily (01:32:55.464)
And comedy.
Emily (01:33:01.578)
Yeah.
larry (01:33:12.084)
But like that happens. Like it just happens. And I but I I think it just would it just came out at the wrong time. But i y it came out when it came out and there’s nothing you could do. Like there’s no reason why it you know you know, would a different actors have made it? Like if it was Eddie Murphy and and and, you know, Mark Wahlberg. you know.
Emily (01:33:19.676)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily (01:33:31.174)
Yeah. I mean Gosling wasn’t as big of a star ten years ago as he is now. He is certainly one of our more bankable people now. Like you can get something green, right.
larry (01:33:35.976)
Yeah.
larry (01:33:40.768)
But only after but only like after Barbie. Like before that. Yeah.
Emily (01:33:44.124)
But only after Barbie, exactly. Which is very similar. Ken Ken is an extremely similar character to this guy where he’s just kind of like ping-ponging off the walls of of reality and it’s just delightful. you know, and Russell Crowe, I think, was perfect casting for this. Like you needed a heavy, and I can’t think of anybody else, even of that physicality, that can do that.
larry (01:33:50.208)
That’s true. That’s true.
larry (01:33:55.764)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:34:04.564)
I and what I like Yeah, and I think what’s odd but what I think also Russell Crowe brings is not just like obviously the physicality and like his own like public history of but but I think but I think what and I think published what I think is also he brings to the role, and I think this is because he is a really good actor, is that he brings an a sensitivity to like there’s an emotional sensitivity
Emily (01:34:16.04)
True, yeah. Pugilism
larry (01:34:35.272)
You know, he’s not just a a muscle guy. You know, he’s not like I don’t I don’t think like Arnold Schwarzenegger would be able to have the emotional range that requires like, this thirteen-year-old girl is threatening to not talk to me. Okay. Or just just like the gentleness. Like I think Russell Crowe has a lot of gentleness in this role as well. Like he he can turn to violence quickly because that’s his work. But I think it’s a man who’s lost, and I think it’s a man who
Emily (01:34:37.704)
Yeah.
Emily (01:34:47.821)
Yeah, exactly.
Emily (01:34:57.444)
Yeah.
larry (01:35:04.459)
wants the world to be a better place. And I think there’s a sensitivity to his performance that that that’s why it I think it works. Not because of he’s just muscle, but it’s it’s the other side that he brings to the role.
Emily (01:35:08.912)
Yeah.
Emily (01:35:15.898)
Yeah. The believable sense of self-sacrifice that he’s willing to, you know, it’s like I have to beat up guys because someone has to do it. You know, it’s just yeah. It it it’s I really am really happy that you chose this because I do think it’s starting to burgeon to be a cult classic. Like more people are finding it and more people are sort of, especially now that we haven’t really gotten too many great
larry (01:35:19.889)
Yeah yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (01:35:29.438)
thank you.
I hope so.
Emily (01:35:40.634)
great comedies in in, you know, the last ten years or so. Like Barbie was funny, but the point of it was not necessarily to be a comedy. You know what I mean? Like there they there we have a lot of really good ones, but there haven’t been just like onslaughts of of especially action comedies, which hi heyday, you know, in the eighties and nineties, which, you know, I really, really miss. But
larry (01:35:43.142)
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:35:48.082)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
larry (01:35:58.941)
Yeah.
larry (01:36:04.404)
Yeah.
Emily (01:36:06.04)
I I think more people are starting to find this movie, connect with this movie, understand the absurdity that is inherent in crime fiction. And I think like especially because it does go so hand in hand with horror, which is like I found myself in a situation, what do I do about it? And like i it it’s just those are bedfellows and they’re absolutely phenomenal. And I’m really, really, really happy you chose this movie to talk about.
larry (01:36:09.566)
I hope so.
Yeah. Yeah.
larry (01:36:20.301)
Mm.
larry (01:36:27.539)
Yep. Well I’m I’m glad I’m I’m glad we could talk about it.
Emily (01:36:32.834)
Yeah. For sorry for everybody who’s listening for like ninety minutes.
larry (01:36:35.55)
Yeah.
That’s okay. They they don’t read and they don’t listen, so it’s okay. Yeah.
Emily (01:36:41.988)
Exactly. Think of it like an audiobook, that’s all. audio cliff notes for the the nice guy.
larry (01:36:47.101)
Yeah, audio cliff notes. Now you don’t have to see the movie because we told you about
Emily (01:36:50.466)
we told you all about it, including ample spoilers.
larry (01:36:53.513)
Yeah. Why would anybody wa listen to this podcast if they haven’t watched the movie yet?
Emily (01:36:59.074)
Know. But they well. I’ll get one nasty gram of like you spoiled this. It’s like it goddammit. That’s why we try to do things that are usually a hundred years old as opposed to a decade old. The silent movie starings.
larry (01:37:01.321)
Then they do, I guess. I don’t know. God damn it.
larry (01:37:11.175)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of last week. By the way.
Emily (01:37:22.744)
let you go. But before you do, how can everybody keep in touch? Your work, your books, tell us all about them.
larry (01:37:24.222)
Okay, good.
larry (01:37:30.515)
Well, they can go to my website, LawrenceAllenwrites.com, and they can sign up for my newsletter. That’s always lovely. And that newsletter comes out every so often. you can find my books are places that sell books. I write the Jimmy Cooper Mysteries. The first one is called Big Fat Fuck Up. can’t point my finger. There you go. For th for those of us who are watching on the the visual, I’m pointing at the book right now.
Emily (01:37:37.772)
Lulu.
Emily (01:37:50.724)
There you go.
larry (01:37:57.755)
you can, you know, order that from the Amazons and the bookshop.org, which I love bookshop.org. it’s available as an ebook, as an audiobook. the guy that does the audiobook is fabulous. I do not because I feel like it would be a living hell to do. I my my wife does audiobooks and the effort
Emily (01:38:10.977)
I was gonna ask, do you do your your own narration?
larry (01:38:24.158)
I don’t have the mental effort to sit in a box and and read and not mess up and have to redo and and then like it’s it’s it’s it’s a lot of work. And so so support your local audiobook narrators. You know, all the all the local ones that are in your home in your hometown. no, I I I don’t. so you can find me, yeah, find me and then on most of the socials that I’m on, you know, write Larry Wright, you can find me there, Instagram or Blue Sky.
Emily (01:38:37.569)
All of them.
larry (01:38:52.965)
and facebook you can find me on facebook yeah come and say hi and then but i do want to pump I have a book that I edited and I have a short story in it’s called it’s coming out at the end of September I almost said August which would be terrible I’m at the end of September it’s called Daydream Believer crime stories inspired by the music of the monkeys so each author has chosen a song title by performed by the monkeys and has written a story based
Emily (01:39:02.123)
right.
larry (01:39:22.043)
as a inspired by that title. and I do have I do have a short story on that as well. it’s from Shotgun Honey. if you go to shotgunhoney.com you can pre order a book and it’s a charity anthology. So it is in support of the American Library Association. And we all need the libraries. So buy buy a copy of the book. There’s gre i I did.
Emily (01:39:38.804)
Yes, we do. Very cool. And you co-edited that with Michelle Kubitz, who was on the show to talk about Knives Out, which was an asshole wonderful. That was I think it was four or five. Yeah, it was pretty early.
larry (01:39:48.625)
Wha what ep what episode was that, Emily? What episode? Come on, episode thirty-five. Episode five. All right. Yeah, pretty early. yeah, she is she edited it. it’s got amazing authors. James D. F. Hanna’s in it, Paul Garth is in it, Alan Orloff, Lena Churn is in it. Who else is in it? That I’m just trying to do it off the top of my head. that’s it because I’m I’m old, so I don’t remember.
Emily (01:40:14.729)
Yeah.
larry (01:40:18.067)
But there’s information on the internet, so you don’t need me.
Emily (01:40:19.859)
Yeah. And I’ll put links in the show notes for ease for everybody, but just in case you’re listening, we’d like to say it out loud. Well thank you so much for joining me. This was a wonderful blast.
larry (01:40:22.473)
Perfect. Perfect. Yep.
Thank you. Yeah, great. I’ll come back. We can we could talk about kiss kiss bang bang sometime. Yeah, yeah.
Emily (01:40:34.441)
Yeah, that would be great. Another flawless, perfectly cast movie.
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