In this week’s episode, my guest, Nekesa Afia, and I start out with the most important aspect of DIAL M FOR MURDER: Grace Kelly’s wardrobe. Of course the clothing actually works as a storytelling element in this brilliant film, and only adds to the tension and release of suspense in this Alfred Hitchcock classic. Nekesa’s Harlem Renaissance mystery series utilizes clothing and other significant visuals to tell its story, and we get into the differences between creating tension on the page and on the screen. The conversation delves into the messy nature of murder, the gender dynamics and societal expectations portrayed in the film, the heartlessness of the plot, and the obsession with containment in the story. It’s a great conversation!
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Murder on the Orient Express (1974 + 2017) – Mindy Carlson – Silver Screen Sleuths
I admit that the audio could use a little work, so below the links to Nekesa’s social media, I’ve included a transcript of the episode.
Keep in Touch with Nekesa:
- https://www.instagram.com/nekesawritesbooks/
- https://www.nekesaafia.com/
- https://www.amazon.ca/stores/Nekesa-Afia/author/B08KFHX5VK?ref=ap_rdr&shoppingPortalEnabled=true
Transcript:
Emily Edwards (00:01.336)
Greetings gumshoes and welcome to another episode of silver screen sleuths the show all about having mystery authors on to discuss mystery movies and television shows with me today is one of the people that Helped me launch the Viviana Valentine series. She was so nice and so generous with her time and advice and everything Nekesa Afia how are you?
Nekesa (00:01.484)
you
Nekesa (00:25.654)
So good, thank you so much. I love the Viv books, I just reread them. And I know I’ve been annoying you with questions and like my thoughts and my comments, but every time think I’m like, I have to tell Emily what such good works she’s done. Like, my goodness, this book was so good.
Emily Edwards (00:42.99)
I always have people on to start by complimenting me specifically, obviously.
Nekesa (00:47.07)
Yeah, yeah, of course. This is your podcast. So five minutes will take five minutes to compliment Emily. Your hair looks so good. You’re so pretty.
Emily Edwards (00:54.668)
and then 55.
55 to compliment Nekesa because she’s like, I love your book so much. like, I when I started writing the Viviana Valentine series, I was like, Italians in New York, how interesting and original, but you have written Harlem Renaissance mysteries. And I’m like, this is wonderful. This is should be everywhere. Why are we not talking about this? Because this is like the perfect setting and time for mystery novels. Can you tell us about your series and why you wrote it?
Nekesa (01:27.148)
Yeah, so I wrote the Harlem Renaissance series, which will be a total of four books. The fourth one comes out in December. It’s called No Good Deed. I don’t know if I can say that. Oh, I can’t say that. It’s on Goodreads. It’s called No Good Deed. So basically, are, they take place in the 1920s. The first two are in Harlem and the second two are in Paris. And it’s about a girl who has to solve crime, but she doesn’t want to. She wants to dance and kiss her girlfriend, but then she’s got to solve crime.
Emily Edwards (01:54.478)
All the things that find us, the responsibilities that find us. I just want to smooch and dance and the last.
Nekesa (01:57.707)
I know.
I do think that like she would be so mad at me and I know she’s not real but like she’s so mad at me. Like why am I doing this to her?
Emily Edwards (02:13.39)
just chatting with Libby Cudmore who writes mysteries as well and we were talking about how like we think of our characters as you know human beings that we just show up in their lives and it’s just you know for like little sections of it and we’re like oh this is the case I dropped in on this is the shenanigans that we get to see and it’s like yeah she might be really mad at you because it’s like unfortunately when you’re around she has to deal with murder.
Nekesa (02:39.744)
Yeah, like, Lou was living her best life. She was just being a waitress at a cafe. She’s going out dancing every night. And then I come in and ruin her life. I don’t know. I don’t feel bad.
Emily Edwards (02:48.75)
Yeah, but you get her fabulous dresses. You get her fat, you know, you get to, she went to Paris. Like she can’t be that mad at you.
Nekesa (02:56.906)
Yeah. And when the fourth book kicks off, this is a little bit of a spoiler. Not really. But she’s living in the writs in our parents. And like, girl, you can’t be mad at me. It’s a writs. Come on.
Emily Edwards (03:06.03)
Ooh, no, it’s, mean, come on. It’s like, those are good circumstances. Those are very good circumstances. But one of the reasons why I was so excited that you suggested doing Dial-In for Murder is because you and I both very, very, very much love the clothing and food and things like, like the very tangible aspects of creating a setting.
Nekesa (03:13.74)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (03:33.766)
And I want to start out by talking about the fact that you’re like, we have to talk about the dresses. This is like bar first order of business, the dresses.
Nekesa (03:43.728)
Yeah, so when uh, so when Emily approached me for this I was like, oh, I don’t know what movie we should do I thought about it for a little and I was like, like a murderer and I was like, we have to spend 20 minutes talking about clothes. Um, because I looked up the costume directors, the costume designers name, but I can’t remember it, but it was a guy so shout out to you that I um
Emily Edwards (04:05.215)
Is it Adrian?
Nekesa (04:07.212)
No, no, no, no, I think I wrote it down and everything, but they’re my notes. I did take notes. Okay, I did take notes. But then like halfway through, I stopped watching because I was just so into it. And like, I haven’t seen it a while. So I was just like, Oh, this is such a good movie. But the way Grace’s clothes tell a story. Her costumes get progressively darker as they go on. Of course, in the pivotal scene, her nightgown is like a bright white.
Emily Edwards (04:13.133)
if you’re looking up Ropaz.
Nekesa (04:36.672)
and of course she’s gorgeous. Like she’s so… She must have been a dream to draw. and just like a dream to just like, toss him and like work with. Just… Because she’s just beautiful. Of course she became a princess, of course!
Emily Edwards (04:41.163)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (04:49.836)
Yeah.
Yeah, of course she did. You see her in these, these like when she’s got like the 50s circle skirts on and you know, like the very nipped waist and you she’s like, the blonde has never been blonder and she’s just so dynamic when she’s on screen, you cannot take your eyes away from her. She’s just so fascinating looking too, because like, I’ve never met a human being as gorgeous as she is. I don’t think most of us have not met human beings that are just
Nekesa (05:05.587)
Yeah.
Nekesa (05:19.562)
Yeah, God is not doing whatever they were doing. God is like not doing, yeah.
Emily Edwards (05:22.573)
Yeah. They were like, we’re ripping up those plans. We made one. It’s fine. it’s weird how often the clothes actually come up in the plot of the movie. Like stockings are involved.
Nekesa (05:29.032)
Yeah, it’s fine. We’re done.
Emily Edwards (05:45.057)
the moment there’s a moment where they’re talking about her handbag and things like that. And it’s like the femininity aspect of Dial In for Murder is essential to the actual movie.
Nekesa (05:55.404)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, that’s something you obviously so understand with Fiv, not even with Joseph Fiv, but with Fiv and all her roommates and Tally. I was gonna say Tommy too, but not really. And like, that’s something I get because Lou is such a fashion plate, even though she has no reason to be. And she’s like, clothes tell a story. Side note that like, I make my own clothes and like a lot of stuff that I do is from the 1950s, is from the 1960s.
Emily Edwards (06:05.447)
No.
Nekesa (06:24.253)
or a style to look like that. So.
Clothes are the basic way that somebody sees the world, I guess. Is that silly? I don’t think it is because when you see someone, you’re like, they’re just wearing jeans or, she’s wearing a dress. And it shows you the type of person they are. Okay, small tangent, small tangent. But there was a TV series up here in Canada where I live that took place in the 1920s. the main character never looked it.
Emily Edwards (06:36.717)
this.
Emily Edwards (06:47.957)
Yeah.
Nekesa (06:58.795)
She always looked like she was from the 1950s. Always. And like, the show wasn’t good, but the costuming…
Emily Edwards (06:59.08)
hate that. That’s the worst.
Nekesa (07:08.011)
I’m
Emily Edwards (07:08.321)
Like, they’re such distinctive silhouettes, you know? It’s so different. The 20s are very columnar, they’re very narrow, and it’s like the later 50s, it’s like you get the wide skirts.
Nekesa (07:11.475)
Yeah!
Nekesa (07:19.915)
Tell me why she’s wearing pedal pants and a like she’s wearing like pedal pushers and like a topic like a slash that topic like this is wrong. And everyone’s like, can you be like, oh, have you seen this show? I’m like, yeah. Yeah. Do you want to do you to? There was there was one episode in the first season where they’re kind of trying but she’s like working out with this guy. She’s boxing, whatever she’s wearing. I swear to God. A brolet with like a
Emily Edwards (07:27.841)
No.
Emily Edwards (07:31.701)
Yeah, and do you really want my opinions about it? Because I don’t think you do.
Nekesa (07:49.821)
under boob cutout? YES!
Emily Edwards (07:51.083)
No! No!
So wrong.
Nekesa (07:59.948)
I swear to God, I will try to find you pictures. I don’t know if I can anymore. will. Sorry, that was such a tangent. But like clothing is so important and it’s really sets like where you are and who you are. Like, Chris’s character here is a rich housewife. I bought it back. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I bought it back. She’s a rich housewife. So you see it in like the first like dress she wears. The lace like ballet like dress with the little bolero on top. That’s like her going out dress and it looks fantastic. Yeah, and you can see that like
Emily Edwards (08:26.828)
Yeah.
Nekesa (08:30.123)
You can just see she’s made of money through her clothes. It’s amazing.
Emily Edwards (08:34.219)
Yeah, and like, I love the fact that, you know, it will show her also like casual with her husband, like she’s often wearing like a nightgown in the apartment because she’s at home, you know, and she’s got that sort of relationship with her husband where it’s like, she, she, there is an intimacy that’s really set up with how she will, you know, come out. And this is partially Alfred Hitchcock just being like, I want
Nekesa (08:47.147)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (09:03.479)
grace in as little clothing as possible that’s allowed in like, you know, screen at the time. But this wasn’t made under the Hays Code. This was a British movie. So it wasn’t restricted in the same way that American movies were. He was allowed to take a little bit more liberty. But like, you know, there’s a casualness sometimes when she’s at home, which you often don’t get in
Nekesa (09:06.133)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (09:25.367)
Grace movies because she’s always held up to be this, you know, like pinnacle, gorgeous, untouchable woman. But here she is, she’s just kind of like, yeah, I’m floating around with my robe and my nightgown because like, it’s just my husband coming home. It’s no big deal. Yeah.
Nekesa (09:37.232)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is kind of similar to Rare Window, where like her costumes get like, more casual and like by the end she’s just like in a pair of jeans, which is so cute. I wish I had those jeans. yeah, so. And it’s her clothing that’s specifically about like, telling the story because like the men are just in suits and like, do we love women in suits? Yes. Has the silhouette changed that much? Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (09:48.714)
I know.
Emily Edwards (10:00.494)
No, exactly. It’s still Ray Milan in a suit. And the casting on this movie is so interesting, because Ray Milan is not a sexy guy, like at all. And I’m just like, really? That’s the fella you went with to be a smarmy husband.
Emily Edwards (10:22.902)
I love how you’re like, he’s been dead for a while. It’s okay.
Nekesa (10:25.179)
I don’t know, I agree though, I agree though. I mean, if you do know me, I’m obviously just like such a curious grand girl, that like it’s hard for me to see anyone else. mean, obviously there’s also Gregory Pack is via wallpaper on my phone. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but
Emily Edwards (10:31.533)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (10:40.002)
That’s awesome. But he’s so much older and he’s like puffy too. And you’re just kind of like, leave him girl, leave him, figure out how to leave him.
Nekesa (10:47.825)
Yeah
Nekesa (10:53.291)
But like he does his money so well. And like every move is so slimy. And there are just like moments that are like, oh, like once you know and like he’s leaving for the night and he like kisses her or whatever. And he’s like, oh, oh God, he’s so, oh, and you can see he’s probably spent a year or two planning this. And honestly, yeah, good for him. I mean, no, no, no, no.
Emily Edwards (10:58.925)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (11:17.419)
Yeah!
Yeah. Like, don’t murder your wife, please. But like, yeah.
Nekesa (11:23.339)
Good work. Don’t hurt her wife. But, very thorough. Like, there are, like, avenues, like, I never thought. Um, like, I never thought of. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (11:32.482)
Yeah, I know. like, this is such a… We were like, kind of texting about the movie the other day before we recording. And I didn’t realize, like the first couple of times I’ve seen this, I didn’t realize how much like Colombo episode it is because it really is a how catch them, which is just so fascinating.
Nekesa (11:51.175)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He sits down and he tells our guy, our human guy, the whole plan. And like, now you know, but that’s like one of his famous things, right? Put the bomb on the table until one person and then the audience is going to be waiting. And like, I don’t think I’ve ever reasonably been able to do that, but like, I love the, I love just the idea of it. And Hitchcock, I do want to was like so clear and like directed his storytelling that like,
Emily Edwards (12:07.66)
Mm-hmm.
Nekesa (12:19.85)
you know he’s gonna do it for a reason and like you know you’re gonna have and now you’re like okay well how is this guy gonna I was gonna say flock but how’s this guy gonna be caught um so I haven’t seen Columbo um I know what I’ll be in for I think yeah yeah uh but Elizabeth is a great successor to them to him to him spiritually and I love her so much and hey another woman who’s close to the story
Emily Edwards (12:25.026)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (12:33.12)
Yes, totally.
Emily Edwards (12:38.987)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (12:48.026)
No lie. Like I love the fact that when you do write a female sleuth, I feel like you are allowed to get a little bit more in the weeds of those things, which, you know, might be a little bit of sexism talking because like, you know, everybody always expects like a woman tells a story with her clothes, but so do men. They’re just not allowed to acknowledge that they think about it.
Nekesa (13:08.156)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I will shout out another wonderful author, Rosen, whose Andy Mills series has a male protagonist. He’s gay, so he’s trying out fashion now. And it’s great to see him make little choices. We do love that. But that’s also suspiciously for the time and the place. He was just a cop, now he’s trying fashion. And I love that you made that a point because I love that for him so much.
Emily Edwards (13:32.898)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (13:36.45)
Yeah.
Nekesa (13:37.94)
Cloves always tell a story. I know that’s not why we’re here. And I get it. I I get it. I just love Cloves so much. It’s a whole fraction of why we’re here.
Emily Edwards (13:41.477)
Hahaha!
Emily Edwards (13:45.263)
part of why we’re here. I think, yeah, no, mean, one of the most interesting things about writing books is that you are allowed to really spend a lot of time on details if that’s what you really want to draw attention to. I talk a lot in the first Viv about how much she sweats during the summertime in New York City. Because New York City in the summertime is freaking miserable. It’s humid and disgusting.
Nekesa (14:00.605)
Yeah, exactly.
Nekesa (14:07.85)
It gets so hot, yeah.
Emily Edwards (14:13.172)
And so like, you know, she’s talking about the fact that she’s in a nipped waist dress. She has to wear girdle. She has to wear, you know, stockings that you have to clip in because they don’t have pantyhose yet. Like it’s a real burden of the clothing that she has to be in, in order to like present femininity in the way that she’s expected to. And so I got to spend a lot of time talking about the layers and the fabrics and how like,
It’s synthetic fabrics, which are kind of new and all the rage at the time in the early 1950s. They don’t breathe the way silk does. They don’t breathe the way cotton does. They’re miserable to wear, but it’s the cheap and fashionable thing to wear at the time. So you’re just kind of like, this is great, but it’s a horrible, sweaty plastic prison. Like it’s just awful to be in. And it’s like, and I know you go into that too.
Nekesa (15:01.549)
Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, and I do or did have a dress for the 1950s that’s just polyester it is gorgeous when like it’s so hot it’s so unbelievable Oh God
Emily Edwards (15:10.913)
Yeah.
I think one of the things that really strikes me about this movie is how artfully it takes place in essentially one room. I love that so much. Like, and Hitchcock is so good about because some of his movies, you know, you think of North by Northwest, which like
Nekesa (17:17.108)
Yes. Yes.
Emily Edwards (17:26.99)
Plot is weak, you know, on that one. We’ve got Carrie being charming, but Plot is weak on that one. But like, it’s all over the place. All of a sudden, they’re in North Dakota and you’re like, why? And it’s like, cause they could and they had the budget for it and it is what it is. But he’s so good at narrowing. It’s amazing.
Nekesa (17:39.75)
Yeah. So.
Yeah, so I did tell Ali this, but I’m not a North by Northwest fan. just think it’s very wrong. Not my favorite movie, but I do like Carrie Graham. But yeah, and like, you know he’s stunning on purpose, and it’s kind of like, I wrote in my notes that it’s like the equal twin to rear window in a way that’s like, so Dylem is a really tight and really claustrophobic, but
Emily Edwards (18:05.048)
Yeah.
Nekesa (18:12.673)
window is also very tight, but there’s a little bit more space so it’s not as claustrophobic. But you can see in Dieland that he’s doing it for a reason and like you’re going along with Grace’s character and she’s she feels like it’s like it’s getting tighter and it’s getting closer. Another good comp for that of course is Gaslight. Both the British and the American ones where the house just seems to get smaller and smaller and as the plot goes on because it’s panic and my god something’s happened yeah.
Emily Edwards (18:31.181)
Mmm.
Nekesa (18:42.633)
I think it’s masterful to be able to use a set like that and when you’re outside you’re probably with a detective and even so there’s shots of them watching him from inside so they’re not even outside. Sorry, I’m drinking a Coke, sorry. I just think it’s masterful storytelling that you can’t, I was gonna say that you can’t do in a book but you probably could.
Emily Edwards (18:53.41)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (18:57.982)
take your time.
Emily Edwards (19:11.375)
I feel, yeah, there’s a couple of things about this that I don’t know how you get it done in a book. Like the how catch them aspect of it of someone admitting how they’re going to go about murdering their wife, which is like a truly reprehensible, universally reprehensible crime because, and especially, especially when it’s done on blonde haired, blue eyed, like 1950s British.
Nekesa (19:11.561)
I’m just not sure how that would work.
Nekesa (19:37.585)
Yeah. The most beautiful woman alive. Yeah. It’s like, dude, that’s your wife. Shut up.
Emily Edwards (19:41.033)
Yeah, exactly. And you know, you have all of like the 1950s baggage that comes along with that. And he’s he’s struggling with his virility because he’s like a former tennis champion and you’re just kind
Nekesa (19:50.398)
Mm-hmm.
Nekesa (19:55.003)
Yeah, it’s like I can’t play tennis anymore, so I’m gonna kill my wife. my-
Emily Edwards (19:58.992)
Surely that’s logical in 1950s masculinity. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny how much Alfred Hitchcock has tennis involved in things. Not only is it a very rich, white-ass sport. It’s like…
Nekesa (20:01.511)
Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense, yeah.
Nekesa (20:15.857)
Yeah, yeah, but it’s more like American rich people. Like if it’s like British white people, it’d be like polo. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (20:19.628)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (20:23.607)
Yeah, exactly. he’s just like, it’s because one of the guys in Strangers on a Train is also like a former tennis pro. And it’s just like, the emasculation of no longer being good at tennis. I was like, why does this keep coming up? It’s such a weird sport to choose for that.
Nekesa (20:45.715)
Seriously though, my god, I’m not gonna tennis anymore, I have to go kill my wife.
Emily Edwards (20:50.061)
Yeah, that’s literally like the mental through line for this man. And you buy a hook line and sinker that like…
Nekesa (20:52.873)
Yeah, to be fair, is having an affair, but that’s not a reason to kill your wife. Just find a divorce lawyer. Even though she is very rich and will leave you and it will probably be an investment. Don’t do murder. Even if you’re setting up this thing to set somebody else up for the murder. Which honestly, can we go back to that scene where he’s talking to the Okay, I’m so sorry, but it’s so natural because he’s so careful.
Emily Edwards (21:16.791)
Yes, please do!
Nekesa (21:21.991)
And he’s like using the cane on one hand and then he uses it on another and then he stops using it all together. And then he like lets the letter fall and he picks it up and then he’s so cleared up to touch it. And he’s like, if you’re going to touch it, feels, wear these gloves. And he, you can tell that he’s been thinking about this for so long that he’s been like playing with all his options, figuring out what he’s going to do. How does he get the most money? It is almost really, it is really like clapping really masterfully away. And it’s like,
Emily Edwards (21:35.767)
Yeah.
Nekesa (21:51.113)
kind of the same thing we do, but we’re not actually gonna do it. Yeah, yeah.
Emily Edwards (21:53.666)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, it’s one of the things about it that does work, you know, because if you were writing that in a book, and I don’t know if you do it first person, third person, like what way you do this, because if you were discussing that, in like a narration of like what characters are doing, it would be so obvious, you know what I mean? And like the translation, you know, if you go like,
know, Claude deign to pick up the letter and point it, you know, and it’s just like, I don’t know how you do that deftly, but the way it’s captured on screen is so delicate that you don’t quite notice it. And it’s just like, Ooh, Ooh, good job, director. Good job.
Nekesa (22:39.113)
Yeah, so I definitely watched this movie for the first time on a plane. I was going back home. And I was just like, riveted the whole time. And of course playing Wi-Fi is not so good, so I can’t be Googling the facts. yeah, it’s just riveting. it’s a film that holds up to so many different rewatches because Hitchcock just layers stuff in and there’s stuff that you look at the second time, so if you look at the third time, I imagine…
Emily Edwards (22:51.31)
Yeah, exactly.
Nekesa (23:08.073)
It’s great, it’s wonderful, love it.
Emily Edwards (23:08.885)
It is. I know. It’s one of those things where I think a lot of the times I like to write in a way that could be translated to screen. And it’s not just because that’s where all the money is and you hope to God you get translated to screen at some point.
Nekesa (23:23.986)
You
Listen, I’m starting my own production company. Viv is up first. Let’s go. I’m casting Aaron DeVada as Tommy though, sorry.
Emily Edwards (23:30.735)
Ha ha ha
Emily Edwards (23:37.68)
Perfect. No notes. I think that’s something that if your reader is a really diehard book reader, I think it can sometimes make them mad that you’re writing very specifically physical scenes and you really do sometimes try to put them into…
a physical space because they can tell that you’re kind of writing so it translates well to screen. But I think more and more because we have all now grown up with movies that I’m wondering, does it put you off? Or do you write with like, visit? But I also know that a lot of people like can’t visualize when they write or read, which blows my mind. Really? that’s so fascinating. Okay, we’re going to devolve into a conversation because
Nekesa (24:22.182)
Yeah, I can’t. I can’t picture something. Nope.
Nekesa (24:29.67)
Wait, can you? Can you?
Emily Edwards (24:31.105)
Yes, yeah. That’s so cool that you get that. love that. That’s not how your brain works. Like if I walked into Tommy’s office, like in the way I wrote it in Viv like I can see absolutely everything like that I’m talking about.
Nekesa (24:34.14)
That’s so weird.
Nekesa (24:47.464)
But yeah, I just have to trust you. I can’t see it. Yeah, what? Yeah, it’s because I have to look stuff up and then describe it. Yep.
Emily Edwards (24:50.927)
That’s so cool! Yeah, but you’re so good at description!
Emily Edwards (24:59.439)
That’s so cool. my gosh. I’m like, but like, okay. So if you’re writing about like, like a satin dress, like you, you just, you’re just kind of like, no, I know what satin is. So like, I know it wants to be a satin dress.
Nekesa (25:12.968)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve used that and I’ve worked with it sewing wise. So I know what the feel is and how it sits and stuff. But yeah, I have to look stuff up. I have to look stuff up all the time. And I have to keep lists of what people look like, because I just can’t picture them in my head.
Emily Edwards (25:25.455)
That’s so cool.
Emily Edwards (25:34.511)
That’s awesome. That’s so neat. that’s no, I’m just like so tickled by this. Yeah, like.
Nekesa (25:38.216)
I mean, no. I I would not say it’s me. It makes my job way harder.
Emily Edwards (25:43.809)
I’m sure it does, actually. Like, that sounds very onerous.
Nekesa (25:47.751)
Yeah, so it’s actually like people have told me that like I write in like a really cinematic way and like that’s something like that’s like Partially like why my book was picked up for media rights in the first place They’re like, like this is so like cinematic But you have the time period and you also like have the story like people sometimes just focus on like the time period I was like, yeah, I did that on purpose. But like I don’t think that I write in a cinematic way. I just write, you know I just like try to put the story down. Yeah
Emily Edwards (25:57.39)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (26:06.576)
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that’s so fascinating. Yeah, no, that’s so cool. Yeah, like I have never kept a description of how a person looks. I just know that that’s them. And maybe I’ve screwed up multiple times. Maybe I’ve been like, I thought they had a tattoo on their left shoulder and now I’m writing that it’s on their right shoulder or something like that. yeah, no, that’s so, cool.
Nekesa (26:35.996)
You can picture stuff in your head.
Emily Edwards (26:38.083)
Yeah!
Nekesa (26:39.9)
God, that must be amazing.
Emily Edwards (26:44.196)
love it. Like, I’m the one thing that I’m a little fuzzy about is like actual people’s faces. So like, if you asked me to like picture Grace Kelly in my head, even though I’ve seen her for hours and hours and hours watching her movies, like things are a little bit blurry, you know, they might be like off a little bit, like I wouldn’t be able to, I can’t draw to save my life. But I can like, if you tell me like, I can see hair, I can see the eye colors, I can see the lip
color, can see dresses and her carriage and stuff like that, but it may not be like an actual like photo representation of Grace Kelly. That makes sense.
Nekesa (27:17.32)
That is so weird. Like I have to, I know she’s blonde, but I’d have to look at that. I know she’s blonde and very pretty. That’s it. No!
Emily Edwards (27:23.374)
Yeah, she’s like, the hair doesn’t move. I’ve tried to think like, I just love this movie so much because the tension of it is really good. And I wonder if more people would consider it more of a suspense rather than a mystery because we… Yeah.
Nekesa (27:44.145)
It is, it is secondly suspense because he tells us everything within the first 30 minutes. He’s like, I’m going to my wife. you’re going to kill my wife for me. Here’s a thousand pounds. It’s going to be the look for Riff. Riff case. Yup. Let’s do it. And like, I think that’s so macho because, we go in, we, we continue the movie knowing that something’s going to happen, that he’s going to leave for the night and then this man’s going to come and kill her. And also I do not-
Emily Edwards (27:55.247)
Yeah.
Nekesa (28:12.68)
think that he was expecting her to fight back. Also, Chekov’s pair of scissors. If he had not been like, if he had not been like, you should finish my clippings. Also, why does she have to finish hers? They’re so annoying sometimes. Like, why does she have to do your clippings for your tennis career? But, had he not been like, if he had not been that, the scissors would not have been there and it would have been a fully different story. So, thank God for the scissors.
Emily Edwards (28:15.278)
Yeah.
No lie!
Emily Edwards (28:25.238)
I know. I know.
Emily Edwards (28:37.52)
Yeah, no lie. I love how much of this movie is about femininity in the 50s. It’s gonna kill ya, because she’s so, she’s stuck in this house and the only way she can feel anything is by letter writing to the man that she’s having an affair with. God almighty. Yeah, mean, she should gotten them all, but hindsight, now we know.
Nekesa (28:47.269)
Yeah!
Nekesa (28:59.408)
And then she birds all the letters except for one.
Emily Edwards (29:07.536)
Isn’t it just? But like, you know, she spends her time like sewing, you know, like sewing her nylons, you know, like she’s darn, she’s doing her sewing because it’s just after the war. Yeah.
Nekesa (29:08.128)
Hint time is 20-20. Yes, yes, yes.
Nekesa (29:18.428)
Yeah, she started for self. Yeah, she’s probably not doing her husband’s laundry, she’s doing her husband’s There’s a char woman and there’s people, but she’s doing all of that. Can’t be that fascinating. Can’t be that interesting. I’d have an affair too.
Emily Edwards (29:35.268)
Yeah. Especially if like my husband was like Ray Milan who feels bad about his tenor’s career. he like the guy who plays her affair partner. I don’t remember who it is off the top of my head. Thankfully, I’ve got IMDB pulled off. That is very wrong. I don’t think he’d been born yet, but.
Nekesa (29:41.288)
You
Nekesa (29:49.446)
I was gonna say Alfred Molina, but I know that’s wrong.
Nekesa (29:55.791)
I don’t want that they give it to my head. I know I know
Emily Edwards (29:59.205)
I love Alfred Molina and he can do a lot, but I don’t think he can do that. It’s Robert Cummings who I’d never, could I name another movie he did? No.
Nekesa (30:03.24)
Yeah, okay, okay. Also, who on earth is Renamand? Why did he? Okay, it’s fine. Why did this Renamand-
Emily Edwards (30:15.344)
Alfred Molino played Inspector Gamache in the Amazon three pines series.
Nekesa (30:23.725)
Yeah, okay. Why why this man came into my head at this point? I don’t know, but it’s
Emily Edwards (30:27.896)
I don’t know. He’s very charming. And I do think that he was the perfect casting for Inspector Gamache, but…
Nekesa (30:35.713)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (30:37.764)
But this guy is, I think it’s funny that a lot of the times when Alfred Hitchcock has like a guy that you’re gonna throw your life away for, like he’s not really that compelling, like at all.
Nekesa (30:51.217)
No! I know, okay, I do think though that he was probably having the time of his life. He’s like, my god, the murder. He’s like, my god, a mystery. Yes! And I love that little like, meditment, like, she’s hooking up with a murder mystery author. You know, he probably based a character, author, in every one of his books. And then after he dies, people will probably be like, well, who’s that woman?
Emily Edwards (30:58.564)
Yeah, he… Because he’s a murder mystery author-writer.
Emily Edwards (31:14.661)
probably.
Nekesa (31:20.096)
And then they’ll be like, do you not know?
Emily Edwards (31:23.472)
Yeah, exactly. She was married.
Nekesa (31:26.994)
And like, yeah, same. Yeah, just love the men, he’s probably like making notes. And like, there’s even a point like before the action happens where they’re talking about the perfect murder and like, oh, like I see the perfect murder. And like that’s essentially what this movie is trying to do the perfect murder. But so many things go wrong for him that you kind of.
He likes his watch too much and it breaks.
Emily Edwards (31:59.439)
I think I love that this movie like really acknowledges that like murder is a it’s so messy, you know, like we always try to craft crimes that are like, perfect and pristine and things like that. And it’s just like, it’s never going to be because if it’s a crime of passion, which all murder is, it can never be clean because it’s just it’s always an emotionally driven.
Nekesa (32:06.727)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (32:24.398)
you know, crime to do. If you’re stealing stuff, it can be done perfectly because there’s not the same usual like emotions involved in this. But murder is always an emotional crime. It’s a very, you know, intense thing to do.
Nekesa (32:37.603)
Yeah, and it also shows that you could spend years trying to plan the perfect murder and you can wind your watch wrong and everything will go wrong. Like, also, I know I just said this, but he definitely did not think she was going to fight back. And I don’t know why he thought that. Like, do you not see her? Maybe he was just like, she’s so passive. Like, she’s not going to do anything. But like, the victim’s always going to fight.
Emily Edwards (32:44.793)
Mm-hmm
Emily Edwards (32:51.585)
No.
Emily Edwards (32:55.888)
Right? Like…
Emily Edwards (33:06.616)
Yeah, yeah. mean, like, it’s just that weird, sexist masculinity myth that like, my wife does whatever I tell her to do. You know, it’s like, he’s so, he’s so thoroughly buys into the idea that like, my wife, you know, like that dumb biblical thing where it’s like, the man is the head of the family, you know, and then you always get like,
Nekesa (33:16.923)
Yeah.
Nekesa (33:27.023)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a woman is Adam’s rib.
Emily Edwards (33:30.71)
Yeah, exactly. And like the sassiest rejoinder you can get is always like, yeah, but the woman is the neck, you know, and she like tells the head where to look. And it’s just like, you all believe that? Like, she’s a human being. She’s a person. Like, no matter how
Nekesa (33:44.324)
Yeah, she’s a person with thoughts, feelings, and interests. Like, maybe she doesn’t want to die. Did you think of that? Maybe she doesn’t want to die. And like, he’s just controlling, he’s controlling the hitman, he’s controlling his wife, like they’re little characters in a play. It’s like, I know exactly what everyone’s going to do because I’ve thought this out so much and then I will be able to take my money and leave. That’s not how life works. So, nice try.
Emily Edwards (33:48.719)
What? Yeah!
Right?
Emily Edwards (34:10.284)
Yeah.
One of my favorite like meta things about this is like the fact that, you know, he’s a tennis pro. That’s what his, everything that he’s done in his life has been like physical success. And he has this mentality that everyone involved in this crime and the scenario that he’s been writing in his head is going to act as though they are following the lines and the path that he has written for them. You know, he’s like,
the murderer. He’s like, I know about your debts and I know about your shame. So you’re going to act like how I suspect you will for the shame that you want to hide. And he’s like, my wife is just here to be my pawn and to be my trophy because I’m such an elite tennis pro. So she’s going to act how I want her to act. And the crime writer is going to act how I want him to act. And, you know, to an extent they do.
But the crime writer is the one going, I know how people act. I’m the person who writes this into stories. So I know that they’re not going to follow the prescriptive trail. And you’re just like, flipping them on their heads. I love it so much.
Nekesa (35:22.375)
you
Nekesa (35:26.791)
And he was having the time of his life. He was trying to hide it, but I know he was. I just think, yeah, same. And he’s like right there with the detective too. And he’s like, but what about this? And what about this? And it’s so fun to see because he’s like putting everything he’s like researched into like practical use. And he’s like, I can do this too. Yeah, I love it. I love him. Good for him.
Emily Edwards (35:36.228)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (35:48.41)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (35:53.541)
Yeah. mean, again, the some of the characters, like some of the actors are like absolute nothing burgers. they’re like, unfortunately, like the Remaland is very good at being smart. This poor Robert Cummings man who might be very famous and I might be totally wrong, but like he’s kind of like a kind of like he’s just dude.
Nekesa (36:14.087)
Yeah, but it does it does work for this film though, kind of, because he’s just like a guy. He’s just a guy. I just looked it up. He has his own. He was on Bewitched for one episode for one episode. Yeah, I read, mean, take it with a grain of salt because I’m I’m the trivia, but they want Cary grant to play Ray Milland’s role And I would have loved to.
Emily Edwards (36:27.576)
Emily Edwards (36:44.334)
Yeah.
Nekesa (36:44.859)
think that was gone so hard. I think Cary Grant was been at least 30 or percent sexier as a villain even though I know he’s trying to kill his wife. I would be like I would love to be this one. I really love Cary Grant.
Emily Edwards (36:46.903)
Bye.
Emily Edwards (36:54.936)
Yeah. Yeah, no, no, like, there is nothing in my mind that Cary Grant can’t do. Like, he’s literally the perfect actor, like, in my mind.
Nekesa (37:01.479)
Yeah.
Nekesa (37:05.141)
my god, I know. my god, I know.
Emily Edwards (37:10.888)
I really wish they had gotten him for this. Lord knows what he was doing in 1954, like that he didn’t do the part.
Nekesa (37:16.131)
Yeah, no, think he just turned it down because he was like, I don’t want to do the villain. There’s another movie that I watched. cannot remember the title of it. I want to say maybe it’s notorious, but he like kind of plays a villain and they’re like kind of alluding to it. Yeah. And they’re like, like maybe the drink is poison, but she doesn’t drink it. So like they’re not going all the way into making him a villain. And like, would like that movie a way, way, way more if like he had been the villain, like if he had been the herder, because we’re like, it’s two in the middle.
Emily Edwards (37:27.394)
Yeah, he’s not a great guy in it.
Emily Edwards (37:33.445)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (37:42.508)
Yeah.
Nekesa (37:45.287)
In Canada we say, I don’t know if you guys say it, like that’s sitting on the fence. Yeah, it’s fencing. Get off the fence.
Emily Edwards (37:49.743)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he’s totally fencing. Yeah. he he notorious is one of my favorite Hitchcock movies. It’s really phenomenal. It’s got one of my favorite actors in it. It’s got Claude Rains in it. And he’s playing like a former Nazi. And it’s it’s a really, really phenomenal movie. But again, it’s not a mystery in any way, or form. It is just purely like it’s purely a suspense movie. And it’s it’s like, it’s
Nekesa (38:03.982)
Mm.
Emily Edwards (38:17.474)
It’s really well done. That’s probably one of the smartiest Cary Grant has ever been because he’s so in love with Ingrid Bergman’s character of Ilsa. He’s just kind of like, I might sacrifice you to a Nazi. You’re just kind of like, bad move, buddy. Don’t do that. Not great.
Nekesa (38:26.598)
I mean, same though. I mean, yeah.
Nekesa (38:35.778)
Yeah, yeah, it’s been a long time since I watched that one, but I I would watch Kiri Kure.
Emily Edwards (38:44.43)
Yeah. Yeah, I would absolutely watch Cary Grant like plan to murder his wife and be like, you know what though? Like she was cheating on him. Like it’s.
Nekesa (38:45.67)
Great.
Nekesa (38:52.166)
Yeah, yeah, I’m like I was wondering like how like the movie like would be different if it’s like just like obviously a whoopie I’m like, like I feel like he’d have more like Charming like is that and I I don’t want to be on his side a little bit I mean, this is my bias for Carrie Grant talking. I know that I know that I am the number one kid nine girl in the apartment. I look alone. It’s just me
This is a Carrie Grant-loving house.
I just, yeah, I just, even if it doesn’t have character, I do think that this is such a good film. And like, you see Hitchcock’s storytelling rules in action, which I think are masterful. And I love seeing them in action.
Emily Edwards (39:43.897)
Yeah. I feel like this is one of his movies that’s the most sympathetic to like the concept of womanhood. And I know like, he’s real, you know, not notoriously, he’s just kind of like, women, they suck because they don’t want to sleep with me. And it’s just like, we get it Alfie. We know what’s up. And that’s it. Yeah. And yeah.
Nekesa (40:01.447)
Yeah, women… women… women are good for sex. And that’s about it. There’s a… oh yeah, he does stuff like that a lot. Yeah, he’s like, are for sex, women are…
Emily Edwards (40:14.946)
I mean, like, psycho is extremely antigenically and you have like
Nekesa (40:20.444)
yeah, okay, but very quickly, speaking of Psycho, in the beginning, I would say spoilers, but this movie’s been out for forever. She’s wearing white underwear when you see her, but then she rubs her bank, and then she’s wearing black underwear because she’s bad! More certainly in costume!
Emily Edwards (40:32.24)
Yes, it’s like your underpants tell you everything. It’s like, you know that line in 10 Things I Hate About You where they’re like rummaging through Julia Stiles’ and they’re like, black underwear. And he’s like, what black underwear? And he’s like, you don’t own black underwear unless you want someone to see it.
Nekesa (40:42.02)
Yay!
Emily Edwards (40:53.25)
I was like, dang, you read us like a book. That’s, you know.
Nekesa (40:53.958)
you
Yup yup,
yeah, he but Janet Leigh gets stabbed to death in a shower. Did you know, this is another tension, did you know that Psycho is the first movie to feature a toilet flushing on screen?
Emily Edwards (41:18.36)
No, I didn’t know that.
Nekesa (41:20.871)
it is. You’re welcome. Yeah, and it’s like, obviously, it’s just the paper in the toilet. But yeah.
Emily Edwards (41:21.902)
Yeah. No, I…
Yeah. But like the things that they find taboo in the 1950s like always confuses me. Like it really, really does. I will never understand how they manage to like obfuscate like really normal stuff. Like they don’t smooch. Like stuff like that really bothers me. Like they don’t like each other. They’re married and they clearly don’t like each other. Why? Yes.
Nekesa (41:34.042)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nekesa (41:51.654)
They’re married, but they have two single beds.
Emily Edwards (41:56.143)
Like that makes no sense to me! I don’t understand it!
Nekesa (41:58.97)
Yeah, like Lucy, Lucy, Lucy couldn’t say that she was pregnant. She was with child. She was in the family way. She can say the P word. People would hate that.
Emily Edwards (42:07.001)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (42:11.21)
Yeah, I know. It just doesn’t make any sense. I think one thing about this movie that I genuinely love is that a lot of people don’t see Grace Kelly as a good actor. And I’m like, no, she brings it. This movie is all on her very narrow bony shoulders, and she nails it. I don’t think this movie would be anything if she wasn’t the lead.
Nekesa (42:40.486)
Do people really think that Reese Kelly is a bad actress? Because she went in, she did her like eight films or ten films, whatever, and left. She’s a great actress. And like, just to consider that like her family did not want her to go into acting and like she like, she defied them. Her family like was a like, like, a WASPy family, I think. The camera loves her? She’s so pretty!
Emily Edwards (42:43.139)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (43:01.287)
Yeah
Nekesa (43:09.798)
And she like, it’s just the way she talks and holds herself, like I wish I had that kind of posture. And like, she shines on screen. She’s a badass. If you think Grace Kelly is a badass.
Emily Edwards (43:23.886)
I know, I know, like, I think that she definitely got typecast a lot, but you know.
Nekesa (43:30.446)
Yeah, but everyone did. Like look at Marilyn Monroe. She was typecast as the dumb blonde, even though like her turn in Don’t Bother to Knock is amazing and she should have done more thriller things. And like she was just seen as like a sex symbol or like a dumb blonde. then like that. Yeah, yeah, she read so much. She was so funny. She was so like, she’s so good in Don’t Bother to Knock and like that movie is all of her. We’re so far with Dialing for Murder and I’m so sorry for that.
Emily Edwards (43:40.953)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (43:44.974)
Yeah, even though she was really smart too, like.
Emily Edwards (43:59.257)
I don’t care. These conversations go where they go.
Nekesa (44:01.258)
Fuck! That is so true. This is actually not scripted, if you could believe it. But yeah, so her turn in Don’t Bother Tanaka is fantastic. It’s one of her earlier films, and it is just breathtaking what she manages to do, and by the end, you are so with her, and it’s incredible. But no, she’s just so hotty, she’s just hot, she’s just hot and blonde and dumb, and that’s the same thing that happened to Grace Kelly. She’s just blonde.
Emily Edwards (44:24.9)
Yep. Yeah.
Nekesa (44:30.059)
And like, it’s because casting directors are not seeing these women as people. They’re seeing them as tropes. It’s like, it must be so frustrating. Like it is so frustrating to be pigeonholed into one thing.
Emily Edwards (44:36.048)
I know. I know. I know.
Emily Edwards (44:44.676)
Yeah, it must be like, and it happens more than you than I even realized. Like even years ago, I was listening to this interview with Laurence Fishburne and he was like, I’m always cast as a father figure. And I was like, what? And he’s like, even when I was like 22, cause I had this voice, he was like, I’m always cast as someone’s dad. And I was just like, my God, that had never occurred to me. Cause like his work is so varied, but it’s always like a parental.
Nekesa (45:03.235)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Nekesa (45:12.921)
Yeah. Yes.
Emily Edwards (45:14.084)
figure and like a leadership figure and I was just and he has to take care of someone and I was just like, that sucks for you man. Cause like, you’re like, he’s amazing, but it never occurred to me. Yeah.
Nekesa (45:17.21)
Yes.
Nekesa (45:21.593)
Yeah, is. Yeah, he’s also Papa. Yeah, it’s it is so fresh. Think about what Marilyn Monroe would have been able to do if she hadn’t been. She hadn’t been typecast. Grace Kelly had other things going on. She married a prince great for her. I love the photo of her leaving the studios for last time. She just has a bunch of clothes with her girl saying, but she’s also.
Emily Edwards (45:39.694)
Yeah.
Nekesa (45:50.617)
fantastic on screen and like she just lights up in a way that’s so breathtaking it’s less apparent here because because it’s a thriller but in like to catch a thief she is there are scenes in to catch a thief that like made me pause and just be like my god
Emily Edwards (46:01.487)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (46:08.256)
Yes. That’s like, to me, like the dreamiest Hitchcock movie like to catch a thief is is just like pure fantasy. And that is like, to cap be able to capture that essence of like, the caper is just so delightful. It’s like the most the dreamiest one.
Nekesa (46:13.877)
for sure!
Nekesa (46:25.763)
Yeah. Yeah, and the costumes went off, thank you, Edith had. And it’s just like, and like there’s just something she wears on, wears on, she’s just so luminous. And honestly, I think she, she’s not a bad, I can’t believe that people think she’s a bad actress. I know, I’m stuck on this point, cause like who, who says that?
Emily Edwards (46:31.14)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Edwards (46:47.234)
No, I know. I know. She’s done some stinky movies, but they were not because of her. Yeah, exactly. I think it’s a lot of people who are jealous. Let’s be honest here. It’s like, you’re just jealous of the hot woman who married a prince. You know what? Get over it. Get over it. You don’t have to take your anger out on poor Grace Kelly.
Nekesa (46:53.249)
Yeah, sure. Who hasn’t? Yeah, who hasn’t? Yeah.
Nekesa (47:04.385)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nekesa (47:11.907)
And it has society. I know! If you think Grace Kelly is a bad actress, please meet me outside by the bike racks. I would like to fight. I’m pretty scrappy.
Emily Edwards (47:14.488)
Your face, you’re like, how could someone say that?
Emily Edwards (47:23.746)
Mm-hmm. I do have to admit that normally I bristle a little bit at things that require a lot of police as part of the plot line. Because I always want a cozy or a private investigator or something like this. But the fact that they keep the mystery writer as always over the cop’s shoulder, I’m like, that helps a little bit. But the cops in this are frustrating because they’re so
Nekesa (47:41.399)
Yeah.
Nekesa (47:47.724)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (47:53.189)
dumb. then, you know, at least they got away from the Hays Code stuff where it’s like the Hays Code, you always had to show cops as being like smart and capable. And it’s like, nah, they were dumb. They were just really dumb.
Nekesa (47:54.638)
Yeah!
Nekesa (48:05.004)
Yeah, and it’s like, it is frustrating to watch, but I also think that’s like added insight because we know what happened. And the cops are just coming in like, what to do, she killed this man. But what I really like is Ray Melaban trying to manipulate the cops in his own way. He’s like, maybe this happened, or maybe this happened. Maybe they were trying to get the cops. I’m absolutely not over like…
Emily Edwards (48:15.183)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (48:23.93)
Mm-hmm.
Nekesa (48:33.775)
how long he spent trying to plan this murder out for it all go wrong. And that’s the crux of the thing. We spend so much time doing this, but it’s all gonna go wrong. And you just have to figure out how it’s gonna go wrong. But yeah, the cop, he is frustrating. I do like that Ray Cummings was there to be like, actually, actually no. I love the point too with the key. And he fumbles and puts the key back in her bag. When he kisses her to take the key from her change room.
Emily Edwards (48:36.995)
I know!
Emily Edwards (49:03.434)
Ugh, I know, I know.
Nekesa (49:05.699)
and you know he’s just doing it to get the key and you’re like, my God.
Emily Edwards (49:09.072)
That is something that I think is like really well done in this. That again, it would be impossible to put into a book, I think, is the actual like heartlessness of it.
Nekesa (49:14.757)
you
Yeah, it’s just… Yeah, I have no idea how you do that in a book unless you’re doing a third person, way out, omniscient type of view, but even then. Hitchcock puts it on screen so naturally, because like, he’s so playful and he’s kissing his wife, but just to kiss her, to get her purse, to get her key, to put it underneath the thing.
Emily Edwards (49:27.683)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (49:42.929)
Yeah. You know, the only thing that I can think of that would be similar in its level of like coldness is probably Gone Girl, but she’s so twisted. You know, like this is like, this is so like sedate and normal and like there’s nothing ostentatious about it. Like there’s no like grand, you know, and I’m going to run away and dye my hair and you know, it gets this
Nekesa (49:54.277)
Mmm.
Emily Edwards (50:12.528)
millionaire in the loop of suspects and things like that. It’s just like that was so outside the realm of what could be possible and normal. is so domestic. This is so tangible because it is husband, wife, one apartment, one entrance, one exit.
Nekesa (50:31.842)
Yeah, husband-wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, that’s what I really like about too. I mean, obviously I am a Gone Girl stan. Amy Elliot Dunlous, right? I will not take any other, like, ugh, same, same girl. But like, it really is the normal scene that like really shakes you because like, this is her husband. I mean, sure, it’s not right to cheat on your husband, but it’s also not right to spend like two years planning your wife’s murder because she’s having an affair, because you feel so emasculated by your-
Emily Edwards (50:58.16)
Yeah!
Nekesa (51:01.848)
finished tennis career. Imagine what life would be like if he just had therapy. He would not go to therapy, but…
Emily Edwards (51:09.22)
Yeah, exactly.
Men will elaborate, like create an elaborate two year scheme to hire a down and out man who needs to sell his car to murder Grace Kelly, who’s his hot wife, who has tons of money, who’s more than happy to continue to share it with you, but like, rather than, you know, go to therapy about no longer being able to play tennis.
Nekesa (51:31.012)
Yeah, and like he’d be like, I don’t need therapy. I’m fine. I’m mentally fine. Bro, no, you’re not. You’re lying awake at night trying to figure out what you’re trying to figure out like what where she where she should like how to do this. Like you are spending so much time just thinking about it. You’re not mentally fine. I forget what I was trying
Emily Edwards (51:41.347)
No, you’re not.
Emily Edwards (51:55.707)
Like, no, but it also feels like I like one of the reasons, like one thing I genuinely like about this is that it’s not set in America and that they are British and they are British upper crust. And it does come with that like expectation of like the stiff upper lip, like British person where you really can’t talk about your feelings or your failures in any way.
Nekesa (52:06.425)
Mm-hmm.
Nekesa (52:17.22)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (52:18.2)
And the fact that she is having an affair with another American who’s probably, even though American men in the 1950s were not particularly verbose about their feelings, he’s seen as a messy American. He’s not British. He is someone who is allowed to talk about love and passion and things like that more than the British older man is. And I’m like, it’s really quite something to me that Alfred Hitchcock
and the screenwriters decided to make that difference and really highlight it in the film.
Nekesa (52:54.818)
Yeah, and I do think that’s to the film’s benefit too. Because it also kind of just gives like a fish out of water type thing. If you kind of get what I mean. Yeah. And like, and that also just goes to like the feeling of claustrophobia in this film because it’s just the one place. It’s just the one thing. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (53:01.538)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Emily Edwards (53:16.472)
Yeah. And like the cops really can’t fathom the idea that this man, you know, arranged to have his wife murdered and they have to have it be like outside because he’s them, they’re him. it’s just so, it must have been really glaring for 1954. you know, know Hitchcock by this point has already been doing a lot of
Nekesa (53:31.745)
Yeah.
Nekesa (53:38.084)
Mmm.
Emily Edwards (53:41.569)
know, thrillers and murder mysteries and things like that. And he’s already been really upending people’s societal expectations. But, you know, this is again, like another thing that must have just been like wrenching the works, ha ha ha, like to think that these sort of domestic disputes when, you know, poverty isn’t involved or, you know, it’s just they’re, they’re rich. How could they have problems? Hitchcock’s just like, more than you know.
Nekesa (54:08.164)
Yeah, yeah.
Emily Edwards (54:10.896)
Hahaha
Nekesa (54:11.627)
Yeah, yeah, I would also, yeah, rich people have a ton of problems. I’m not, I would love to be rich, yes, but I do acknowledge that they do also have problems. And like, it’s so glaring that like, obviously, neither of them are happy. And like how they choose to tackle that is interesting because she’s attacking the fair. He daydreams about murder. He does murder. And like, that is so male coded too, like,
Emily Edwards (54:21.144)
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Edwards (54:35.736)
Yeah, exactly.
Emily Edwards (54:42.073)
Mm-hmm.
Nekesa (54:42.334)
once for maybe the third time don’t cheat on your don’t you don’t be spouse but like also don’t kill your spouse i’m like i understand having an affair more than planning a murder for like two years
Emily Edwards (54:53.294)
Yeah, exactly. One of those things is like, doesn’t lead to death. Just like one of those things, you know, they’re both irreversible, but don’t murder people. Like, don’t murder people. Like, but you are right that the idea of like having to deal with the embarrassment and the, you know, the humiliation of not making money, not being a tennis pro and having your wife cheat on you, like…
Nekesa (54:59.042)
Yeah!
Yeah, yeah!
Emily Edwards (55:17.744)
Murder is a very male coded response to that. You rarely get women who are like, my husband’s out with some floozy. So what I’m going to do when he comes home is have someone take him out. That’s not how women deal with it.
Nekesa (55:32.766)
Right? mean, I do think it work with a woman though. And I don’t know if that’s just like, women are hot and villains are hot,
Emily Edwards (55:46.562)
You know, I had never thought about like a gender flipped dial Like, do you think, like, would it be the same plot beat for beat?
Nekesa (55:54.552)
I mean, don’t, it couldn’t be, but I think it could be pretty similar. I mean, this is just like, I don’t know. I think I’d like to see it though.
Emily Edwards (56:04.898)
Yeah, no, I’d never thought about that because like, so many of Hitchcock’s movies are so there that like we mentioned on this one. It’s like so deeply gendered. It’s so deeply about. Yeah.
Nekesa (56:16.342)
Yeah, it’s so male coded. He is so male coded. And like, I get it. He’s a man. He’s a in 1950s. He’s a rich white man in the 1950s. He’s going to only be male centered. And then like women are just kind of like ornaments to him or like, just like things that are around, not even really people. I do wonder, mean, maybe if it’s not even like the same plot, it’s like still like a plot to put like more her husband. Like I feel like that could kind of slap her.
Emily Edwards (56:31.225)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (56:45.934)
Yeah, I know. Like, that’s so interesting. I’m… Yeah, yeah, me neither. I’m… Yeah. Like, I asked this about when I talked to Lawrence Allen about The Thin Man, we were like, like, if you were going to remake it, like, would you, do you have anybody in mind if you were going to remake Dial for Murder? Like, who could you see?
Nekesa (56:48.067)
I do think Jillian Flynn could do it, but I couldn’t. Maybe Jillian. Is she busy?
Nekesa (57:13.187)
Oh, that’s a good question. I don’t know.
Nekesa (57:21.485)
For some reason, my premise was like, Daniel Craig. But no, those are completely different movies to catch, so hang on.
Emily Edwards (57:27.734)
Yeah, like, I don’t know, like, as Ray Milan’s character or like the boyfriend.
Nekesa (57:33.123)
Yeah, no, as the author of character. like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, he already does that. I don’t know. But that’s also because like, I kind of don’t know who’s starring in stuff these days.
Emily Edwards (57:35.874)
Schemid murderer. Yeah.
Emily Edwards (57:51.152)
I know, I can’t name you any actors underneath the age of 30. I really can’t. Like…
Nekesa (57:54.787)
Seriously, I mean I could have been on stage but not on screen.
Emily Edwards (58:00.217)
Yeah. Ooh, that would be fascinating. Yeah. I love the containment of this. It’s a locked room mystery. There’s so much happening here. And again, in such a contained movie that I love movies that are so bare bones, that are just so… Everything strenuous has been stripped away.
Nekesa (58:04.663)
Yeah.
Emily Edwards (58:26.818)
It’s something that is again really difficult to do in books, but that’s why these wonderful things exist on screen.
Nekesa (58:33.843)
Yeah, which is why I’m like, it’s also like, the, the, like, Twint, Rare Window, because Rare Window is the same thing, like all the music in Rare Window is diegetic, which is my favorite fact, and like, I know everyone knows that, but I’m like, all the music in Rare Window is diegetic, and it’s all happening, and I, I just think that’s such a feat.
It’s just incredible to me. But yeah, it’s like the same like small place and like you’re looking out of the windows and like in Dullabh you’re like in the apartment and like you barely leave it. And I just think it’s such masterful storytelling. It’s interesting storytelling. He would not respect me as a woman, as an author or anything. But no, he would not. But like…
Emily Edwards (59:15.716)
Probably not, no.
Nekesa (59:20.853)
I totally see what he’s doing and like, I always like love a Hitchcock film except for Rough Binderswise. It’s just cause like, he keeps the suspense, he keeps the tension. He like, you’re gonna start something and like you’re gonna go for the ride. It’s gonna be so fun. It’s gonna be so interesting. Like, yeah, it’s great. It’s great work.
Emily Edwards (59:40.174)
Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me about this. How can everybody keep in touch with you and your work?
Nekesa (59:45.987)
Yeah, so I am Nekessa writes books on Instagram and threads and Anywhere you I mean not not Twitter anymore. Basically just Instagram and threads. yeah. Hope to see around
Emily Edwards (59:58.833)
Thank you so much!
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